GUNNER

[rhinomonkey]

How do you control the gun when flying as a gunner in one of the bombers?

[Buddye]

I use the mouse (default, I think). I think Bader uses the joystick as it is the more realistic and difficult. I do alot of testing as a gunner as I can watch the AI and I do enjoy it.

The guns were not all that accurate but the truely skilled gunners got to be good (it is the same with BOBII skill/gunners).

Of course either can be set up in the option->controls.

[rhinomonkey]

I use the mouse (default, I think). I think Bader uses the joystick as it is the more realistic and difficult. I do alot of testing as a gunner as I can watch the AI and I do enjoy it.

The guns were not all that accurate but the truely skilled gunners got to be good (it is the same with BOBII skill/gunners).

Of course either can be set up in the option->controls.

Ah thanks! one more question, is there anyway of choosing which gunner you are?

[Buddye]

Sure, use the keyPad (8,5,2 keys front, tail, top).

[rhinomonkey]

Sure, use the keyPad (8,5,2 keys front, tail, top).

thanks!

[heinkill]

Rhino

It can be a hoot playing a campaign as a gunner
Set the campaign up so you are flying for a particular unit and see how long you can survive.
I play Dead=Dead and haven't made it through a full campaign yet, makes you respect what they went through. You can see one of my campaigns here.

http://www.shockwaveproductions.com/for ... ght=gunner

[ghost_rider]

Well, I am playing 2.07 and Being gunner is very SAFE.
So far I have sent a lot of unescorted bombers against British Isles and the outcome is funny: 89 lost bombers to 63 fighters including ONE disastrous mission where I lost 14 planes, because my plane was damaged I could not defend my formation.

Generally, if you do not concentrate on getting kills, you can protect bombers easily. AI always breaks its attack if fired upon (hit or near miss), which is great in fighter against fighter, but when attacking bombers it is simply ridiculous... So fire 2-5 rounds against each fighter in range and they will hardly get more than they give... You must mount the last plane in gruppe, but leader not one of the wingmen.

Anyway, AI needs improvement in this. To be gunner is easy. However you cannot win the campaign this way...

[ghost_rider]

And couple more things - send only ONE gruppe, look at the target during the flight and in another run set IP to aproach from different side.

Position 1 (1st staffel): (on plane selection screen)

---------X
-----X-------X
X----------------X
---------P
-----X-------X
X----------------X
X=AI
P=Player
This way, you have the best position to hit incoming fighters. Beware! They usually go after the gruppe leader! Do not alow them to shoot him down!

Position 2 (1st staffel)

----X--------------------X
X-------X-----------X--------X
----X--------------------P
X-------X-----------X--------X

The last vic flies at the end of the staffel.

Be carefull! Ju88 sometimes use different order of staffel.
Usually:

------------1st
3rd--------------------2nd
Ju88s:

------------1st
------------3rd
------------2nd (you should use the 2nd staffel then)

You can use unescorted bombers to destroy important targets such as spit and hurry factories to start wearing down RAF.

[Smithie]

Rhino

You can see one of my campaigns here.

That's a great thread, I enjoyed that.

[Bader]

There is a firm argument that mouse control is too precise, yes.

Try being a gunner via the joystick. I prefer that. It's appropriately difficult.

[Jethro]

Mmmhh... my joystick really doesn't fit for managing a hand-held mg... (I figure that manning a light mg on an aircraft mount may be a very istinctive action, maybe I'm wrong...)

Anyway I think that the AI code for attackers should be reworked just a bit so they stick on target a little bit more (or introduce some random and/or morale-related variability to this feature...). Currently few loose shots (I have bullet dispersion set to "on") are enough to get rid of any of them... they abort their attacks too easily IMHO.

Regards,
J

[Buddye]

Well, I can look at making the AI stay on target for the fighter against bomber. It can be a random or skill based code decision.

The downside is the effect it could have on fighter losses in the campaign.

Do we have any reports (research) we can review. I would think most pilots is the RAF would take evasive action for a bullet hit or near miss and then comaround again (which is the way the code works now).

[jwenting]

RAF pilots also quickly learned (as did Luftwaffe pilots later) which angles were best to get close to the bombers while staying outside the killzones of the bomber guns.

So gunners would not get a good shot at anything because the fighters were darting in and out of their field of view faster than they could train their weapons.

The USAAF box formation of B-17s was devised to counter that by providing overlapping fields of fire that at least in part eliminated those blind spots.

[rhinomonkey]

just flew one of the historic missions as a gunner and yes the raf fighters break off in you shoot at them but i was pleased to see that the ai planes are determined enough to come back for more even if they are trailing smoke!

[ghost_rider]

Well, I can look at making the AI stay on target for the fighter against bomber. It can be a random or skill based code decision.

The downside is the effect it could have on fighter losses in the campaign.

Do we have any reports (research) we can review. I would think most pilots is the RAF would take evasive action for a bullet hit or near miss and then comaround again (which is the way the code works now).

As I wrote elsewhere, you made a huge step in imrpoving BOB. It cannot be compared to BOB I.


If I understand the system, then Leader attacks leader, 2 attacks 2, etc. Or something like that and it also works for bigger engagements, where 1st staffel engages first flight, and so on. This works well in fighter to fighter combat, but applied to bomber interception, it is not the best way.

My suggestions for improvements (decide if possible):
1)Invert numbers for engaged planes, so leader will attack the last plane. 2)Vic should engage one plane.
3)They should use zoom and boom.
4)Gunners should have 50-100 rounds and reload will take some time (5 seconds?.
5)Movement of gun should slow down when firing, so gunners will have to use short burst only.
6)Fighters should stay on target longer inspite of defensive fire.
7) All bombers should return fire, not only some.
8)Unescorted raid should be heavily intercepted, not only 1 flight, but for example 3.