Windows 10 success

Battle of Britain "Wings of Victory"
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ShadowShooter
Senior Airman
Posts: 139
Joined: 10 Mar 2011
Location: Queensland, Australia

Re: Windows 10 success

Post ShadowShooter »

Airmaric wrote: It is just frustrating that I can play the game with FULL object density (and higher AF - 16x) and it looks so great, but it will produce errors upon exiting with Alt-X.

**Sigh**

If anyone has suggestions or finds a solution - please let us know!
Airmaric,
I know you said you have tried a hundred combinations to solve the ALT-X crash problem, so if you have already explored this idea, my apologies. It involves the in-game settings for Campaign Resolution versus 3D Resolution. I see above that you have them both at x32 bits. Try changing the Campaign Res to x16 instead. If, as I assume, the Campaign res covers the setting for all 2D pages in the game, not just the campaign Command pages, then it includes the one you're ALT-Xing back to. Lowering the bit factor might soften the "fall" to 2D a little.

If that does nothing, as a matter of interest you could go to the BDG file and turn on windowed-mode and see if ALT-X-crash still happens then with max options? Good luck!

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Airmaric
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Joined: 06 Jul 2008
Location: Canada

Re: Windows 10 success

Post Airmaric »

Thanks Shadowshooter,

A good idea - I had not tried changing the bit depth from 32 to 16 yet...

After more than two dozen attempts today, still no progress on my part. Same results with 16bit color set in the in-game settings. I tested in native Win-10 mode, Win7 compatibility, XP2 compatibility, all the same result as before - flies great while still in-game, but crashes upon Alt-X exiting. Now to be clear, it will exit succesfully if I remain at altitude, and never get a close look at ground objects, but if I commit any low-flying violations over cities (ie: buzz the rooftops) it will guarantee a crash upon Alt-X exiting. If I remain far away from the fancy graphics on the ground, it will often (not always) exit successfully without crash.

It is as though the ground objects (buildings, trees, what have you) remain in memory and cause an error upon an attempt to exit.

The settings I used for my ATI graphics card tended to be all "use application settings", but I also attempted a few times with overrides set to the most minimal/conservative settings possible.

The settings I used in-game were my monitor's natural resolution (1680x1050) x 16 bit - both in 3D and 2D (both settings the same); most settings either ON or HIGH, with Particle Density LOW; Ground Objects HIGH (not FULL) and I attempted Anisotropic at 4x; 2x; Bilinear; and None.

Again, my results are pretty consistent despite any of these variables being altered:
- Compatibility mode (Win10; Win 7; Xp3; Xp2; I have even tried Vista mode, despite nausea at the thought of it...)
- AMD Catalyst Control Centre settings (for my ATI R9 280X 3GB graphics card)
- In Game Settings (resolution, bit depth, Anisotropic filtering)

And just tonight on a whim I tried even updating my Saitek drivers, as I use the Saitek X52PRO HOTAS setup, with the Pro Rudders as well. The latest Saitek drivers do not yet support Windows 10, but on Sept.04th they just released some beta drivers for Win10 - so I thought just maybe that might be the ticket. Unfortunately, the results seem to be unchanged after I uninstalled/rebooted/updated and installed new drivers/rebooted and tested. BobII flies great, but will crash upon an Alt-X exit.

I know AMD has a new Beta driver out for my graphics card, it has some Anti-Aliasing errors fixed according to the changelog, so perhaps I can try those out soon when I have more time.

In the meanwhile, I can fly some great missions, I just can't exit from them without crashing if I fly close to the ground scenery. That's my update for this week, cheers to all and fly safe!

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PV
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Posts: 5155
Joined: 13 Nov 2004
Location: Lost in the tundra, Canada

Re: Windows 10 success

Post PV »

Well, what does your crashlog look like? Are you crashing in ntdll.dll,
or some such part of windows? You know the routine right? As is done
a million times in the tech support subforum, the last entry starting
------------ Begin of section written with bob.exe, Build/Rebuild all...
and continuing to the first couple of entries in Module list...

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stickman
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Re: Windows 10 success

Post stickman »

PV wants to see just these lines from the crashlog file, which will generate in the BoBII root folder.
Here is an old example of one of mine, that does not happen any more:

------------ Begin of section written with bob.exe, Build/Rebuild all date: Oct 30 2014 09:45:37 ---------------------------
bob.exe caused a EXCEPTION_ACCESS_VIOLATION in module bob.exe at 0023:0058256E, DeadStream::GetWorldDead()+72 byte(s), e:\merlin\bob\src\missman\savegame.cpp, line 1231+8 byte(s)
Exception handler called in int CMIGApp::Run().
Read from location 00000014 caused an access violation.
Code: 83 7e 10 ff 0f 84 55 01 00 00 66 83 7e 1a 00 74
Stack dump:
Stack: 0023:0058256E (0x0D566E20 0xB37DAE23 0x006C7D24 0x06159E08) bob.exe, DeadStream::GetWorldDead()+72 byte(s), e:\merlin\bob\src\missman\savegame.cpp, line 1231+8 byte(s)
Stack: 0023:004189B0 (0xB37DA8B3 0x091DD650 0x00000000 0x0040D754) bob.exe, Inst3d::Inst3d()+454 byte(s), e:\merlin\bob\src\mfc\stub3d.cpp, line 488
Stack: 0023:0040A577 (0x00000000 0x0040D759 0x00423CD2 0x00000000) bob.exe, Rtestsh1::Launch3d()+189 byte(s), e:\merlin\bob\src\mfc\rtestsh1.cpp, line 265+32 byte(s)
Stack: 0023:0040CDAD (0x00423CD2 0x00000000 0x00000000 0xB37DA80B) bob.exe, Rtestsh1::OnGetString()+13 byte(s), e:\merlin\bob\src\mfc\rtestsh1.cpp, line 238
Stack: 0023:0040D759 (0x00000000 0x00000000 0xB37DA80B 0x00000410) bob.exe, Rtestsh1::MSG2_OnGetString()+5 byte(s), e:\merlin\bob\src\h\rtestsh1.h, line 71+5 byte(s)
Stack: 0023:00423CD2 (0x00000410 0x00000000 0x006C9790 0x0018FCD0) bob.exe, CWnd::OnWndMsg()+1268 byte(s), f:\dd\vctools\vc7libs\ship\atlmfc\src\mfc\wincore.cpp, line 2194+8 byte(s)
Stack: 0023:0041EFF8 (0x00000410 0x00000000 0x00000000 0xB37DA983) bob.exe, CWnd::WindowProc()+34 byte(s), f:\dd\vctools\vc7libs\ship\atlmfc\src\mfc\wincore.cpp, line 1741+23 byte(s)
Stack: 0023:00421CB9 (0x00000000 0x00360378 0x00000410 0x00000000) bob.exe, AfxCallWndProc()+154 byte(s), f:\dd\vctools\vc7libs\ship\atlmfc\src\mfc\wincore.cpp, line 243
Stack: 0023:00421D46 (0x00360378 0x00000410 0x00000000 0x00000000) bob.exe, AfxWndProc()+52 byte(s), f:\dd\vctools\vc7libs\ship\atlmfc\src\mfc\wincore.cpp, line 388+16 byte(s)
Stack: 0023:74B162FA (0x00421D12 0x00360378 0x00000410 0x00000000) USER32.dll, gapfnScSendMessage()+818 byte(s)
Stack: 0023:74B16D3A (0x0671F1BC 0x00421D12 0x00360378 0x00000410) USER32.dll, GetThreadDesktop()+215 byte(s)
Stack: 0023:74B177C4 (0x00421D12 0x00000001 0x0018FEE0 0x0042C507) USER32.dll, CharPrevW()+312 byte(s)
Stack: 0023:74B17BCA (0x0671A650 0x007A20E0 0x74B20B4A 0x0040ECDB) USER32.dll, DispatchMessageA()+15 byte(s)
Stack: 0023:0042C507 (0xB37DAA5F 0x007A1BC0 0x007A1BC0 0xFFFFFFFF) bob.exe, AfxInternalPumpMessage()+62 byte(s), f:\dd\vctools\vc7libs\ship\atlmfc\src\mfc\thrdcore.cpp, line 183
Stack: 0023:0040ECDB (0x00001DB1 0x00000002 0x00000001 0x0047A825) bob.exe, CMIGApp::Run()+437 byte(s), e:\merlin\bob\src\mfc\mig.cpp, line 2002+8 byte(s)
Stack: 0023:00690AAF (0x00400000 0x00000000 0x06693582 0x00000001) bob.exe, AfxWinMain()+104 byte(s), f:\dd\vctools\vc7libs\ship\atlmfc\src\mfc\winmain.cpp, line 47+7 byte(s)
Stack: 0023:0047A825 (0xFFFDE000 0x0018FFD4 0x770F9F72 0xFFFDE000) bob.exe, __tmainCRTStartup()+375 byte(s), f:\dd\vctools\crt_bld\self_x86\crt\src\crt0.c, line 324+28 byte(s)
Stack: 0023:74EB338A (0xFFFDE000 0x765E0A02 0x00000000 0x00000000) kernel32.dll, BaseThreadInitThunk()+18 byte(s)
Stack: 0023:770F9F72 (0x0047A88E 0xFFFDE000 0x00000000 0x00000000) ntdll.dll, RtlInitializeExceptionChain()+99 byte(s)
Stack: 0023:770F9F45 (0x0047A88E 0xFFFDE000 0x00000000 0x78746341) ntdll.dll, RtlInitializeExceptionChain()+54 byte(s)

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Airmaric
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Joined: 06 Jul 2008
Location: Canada

Re: Windows 10 success

Post Airmaric »

Very good, I have put together a sample of my recent crashlog below.

I have taken samples of the crashlog for when I've run tests in WinXP SP3 compatibility mode; Win7 compatibility mode, and Windows 10 mode (no compatibility settings).

To my eyes, they appear very similar to one another. Have a look:


===============================
Win XP SP3 Compatibility Mode:
===============================

------------ Begin of section written with bob.exe, Build/Rebuild all date: Dec 21 2012 17:39:32 ---------------------------
bob.exe caused a EXCEPTION_ACCESS_VIOLATION in module ntdll.dll at 0023:77CB5635, VerSetConditionMask()+629 byte(s)
Exception handler called in int CMIGApp::Run().
Write to location 00000014 caused an access violation.
Code: ff 40 14 8b 7e 10 8b 5c 24 14 89 7c 24 20 b8 82
Stack dump:
Stack: 0023:77CB5635 (0x0019F928 0x0CC5A460 0x00000000 0x00000001) ntdll.dll, VerSetConditionMask()+629 byte(s)
Stack: 0023:77CA5FA1 (0x70DCA020 0x0019F914 0x70DA19DC 0x09FB0604) ntdll.dll, RtlEnterCriticalSection()+289 byte(s)
Stack: 0023:77CA5EC5 (0x09FB0604 0x000000A0 0x7D7965A3 0x0019F930) ntdll.dll, RtlEnterCriticalSection()+69 byte(s)
Stack: 0023:70DA19DC (0x09FB0604 0x00000001 0x10664538 0x09FB0604) d3d9.dll, Direct3DCreate9Ex()+42972 byte(s)
Stack: 0023:70E6F194 (0x0CC5A460 0x000083EF 0x10664538 0x00862E60) d3d9.dll, Direct3DShaderValidatorCreate9()+153780 byte(s)
Stack: 0023:08B6B9A9 (0x00000000 0x04F385B8 0x09320048 0x00000000) d3dx9_30.dll, D3DXCreateEffect()+71963 byte(s)
Stack: 0023:00532144 (0x00000000 0x533D18BC 0x04F385B8 0x09320048) bob.exe, Renderer::CloseDown()+468 byte(s), c:\merlin\bob\src\lib3d\renderd3d9.cpp, line 1513

...<abbreviated>


EAX=00000000 EBX=00000800 ECX=09FB0614 EDX=FFFFFFFF ESI=09FB0604
EDI=09FB0604 EBP=00000000 ESP=0019F9F8 EIP=00552713 FLG=00210213
CS=0023 DS=002B SS=002B ES=002B FS=0053 GS=002B
Error occurred at 9/9/2015 23:49:52.
D:\GAMES\Battle of Britain II\bob.exe, run by Murdock.
8 processor(s), type 586.
1024 MBytes physical memory.
OS: 5.1 build 2600 platform 2 Service Pack 3


============================

============================
Win 7 Compatibility Mode:
============================


------------ Begin of section written with bob.exe, Build/Rebuild all date: Dec 21 2012 17:39:32 ---------------------------
bob.exe caused a EXCEPTION_ACCESS_VIOLATION in module ntdll.dll at 0023:77CB5635, VerSetConditionMask()+629 byte(s)
Exception handler called in int CMIGApp::Run().
Write to location 00000014 caused an access violation.
Code: ff 40 14 8b 7e 10 8b 5c 24 14 89 7c 24 20 b8 82
Stack dump:
Stack: 0023:77CB5635 (0x0019F928 0x06399BA0 0x00000000 0x00000001) ntdll.dll, VerSetConditionMask()+629 byte(s)
Stack: 0023:77CA5FA1 (0x6EE7A020 0x0019F914 0x6EE519DC 0x18468044) ntdll.dll, RtlEnterCriticalSection()+289 byte(s)
Stack: 0023:77CA5EC5 (0x18468044 0x00000000 0xAEE4D8AF 0x0019F930) ntdll.dll, RtlEnterCriticalSection()+69 byte(s)
Stack: 0023:6EE519DC (0x18468044 0x00000001 0x1C838818 0x18468044) d3d9.dll, Direct3DCreate9Ex()+42972 byte(s)
Stack: 0023:6EF1F194 (0x06399BA0 0x000083BB 0x1C838818 0x00862E60) d3d9.dll, Direct3DShaderValidatorCreate9()+153780 byte(s)
Stack: 0023:0858B95B (0x00000000 0x04F385B8 0x08EF0048 0x00000000) d3dx9_30.dll, D3DXCreateEffect()+71885 byte(s)
Stack: 0023:00532144 (0x00000000 0x96D1E985 0x04F385B8 0x08EF0048) bob.exe, Renderer::CloseDown()+468 byte(s), c:\merlin\bob\src\lib3d\renderd3d9.cpp, line 1513

...<abbreviated>

EAX=00000000 EBX=00000800 ECX=18468054 EDX=FFFFFFFF ESI=18468044
EDI=18468044 EBP=00000000 ESP=0019F9F8 EIP=00552713 FLG=00210213
CS=0023 DS=002B SS=002B ES=002B FS=0053 GS=002B
Error occurred at 9/9/2015 23:34:10.
D:\GAMES\Battle of Britain II\bob.exe, run by Murdock.
8 processor(s), type 586.
1024 MBytes physical memory.
OS: 6.1 build 7600 platform 2

================================

============================================
Windows 10 mode (No compatibility settings)
============================================

------------ Begin of section written with bob.exe, Build/Rebuild all date: Dec 21 2012 17:39:32 ---------------------------
bob.exe caused a EXCEPTION_ACCESS_VIOLATION in module ntdll.dll at 0023:77595635, VerSetConditionMask()+629 byte(s)
Exception handler called in int CMIGApp::Run().
Write to location 00000014 caused an access violation.
Code: ff 40 14 8b 7e 10 8b 5c 24 14 89 7c 24 20 b8 82
Stack dump:
Stack: 0023:77595635 (0x0019F8FC 0x43F2A940 0x0DEF1834 0x00000001) ntdll.dll, VerSetConditionMask()+629 byte(s)
Stack: 0023:77585FA1 (0x7137A020 0x0019F8E8 0x713519DC 0x1ADB8024) ntdll.dll, RtlEnterCriticalSection()+289 byte(s)
Stack: 0023:77585EC5 (0x1ADB8024 0x00000000 0xC56966F1 0x0019F904) ntdll.dll, RtlEnterCriticalSection()+69 byte(s)
Stack: 0023:713519DC (0x1ADB8024 0x00000001 0x5A3C10E4 0x1ADB8024) d3d9.dll, Direct3DCreate9Ex()+42972 byte(s)
Stack: 0023:7136C830 (0x43F2A940 0x5A3C10E4 0x0000000D 0x06C89ED1) d3d9.dll, Direct3DCreate9Ex()+153136 byte(s)
Stack: 0023:06D4ABE8 (0x5A3C0FC4 0x00000018 0x0000000E 0x06D4ABBB) d3dx9_30.dll, D3DXCreateEffect()+68442 byte(s)
Stack: 0023:06D44550 (0x00000003 0x000083CC 0x0DEF1770 0x00862E60) d3dx9_30.dll, D3DXCreateEffect()+42178 byte(s)
Stack: 0023:06D4B1A1 (0x00000001 0x00000000 0x0053214C 0x0DEF1770) d3dx9_30.dll, D3DXCreateEffect()+69907 byte(s)
Stack: 0023:06D4B2A5 (0x0DEF1770 0x04F385B8 0x08CD0048 0x00000000) d3dx9_30.dll, D3DXCreateEffect()+70167 byte(s)
Stack: 0023:0053214C (0x00000000 0xC2BD2828 0x04F385B8 0x08CD0048) bob.exe, Renderer::CloseDown()+476 byte(s), c:\merlin\bob\src\lib3d\renderd3d9.cpp, line 1514

...<abbreviated>

EAX=00000000 EBX=00000800 ECX=1ADB8034 EDX=FFFFFFFF ESI=1ADB8024
EDI=1ADB8024 EBP=00000000 ESP=0019F9F8 EIP=00552713 FLG=00210213
CS=0023 DS=002B SS=002B ES=002B FS=0053 GS=002B
Error occurred at 9/9/2015 19:28:52.
D:\GAMES\Battle of Britain II\bob.exe, run by Murdock.
8 processor(s), type 586.
0 MBytes physical memory.
OS: 6.2 build 9200 platform 2



Oh and for clarity, where I have inserted the ...<abbreviated> is where the "Stack Dump (Old Format)" would have begun, so I omitted that part but included the section towards the end which details the OS used.

All crashes above were produced by flying the Basic Training TAKEOFF scenario, in which I fly the exact same profile each time for consistency:
- I begin with Shift F, to monitor framerate during the test
- A quick look around using POV hat, control check, then a takeoff
- I overfly the city straight ahead of the runway, buzzing the large church as close as possible
- A tight turn overtop the city at low altitude (rooftop level)
- Return for a landing at my airfield of departure
- Full stop beside the hangars. Once completely stopped, I take a breath, cross my fingers, and hit Alt-X.

A few moments later, as the game is attempting to return to the menus, the crash occurs, and I am back to desktop.

Conversely, scenarios where I am never close to ground objects (ie: dogfights where I end with Alt-X still up at altitude) will often (but not always) exit successfully. The same takeoff scenario detailed above will also often (but not always) exit successfully if I takeoff, and immediately climb up to altitude, while never taking a close inspection of ground objects (no buzzing the townsfolk, and no landing back at base). It was those kind of scenarios that initially gave me hope that things were working well with Win10 (my first few posts to this thread were based on my attempts at the dogfight missions, which succeeded).

When I have more time, I will attempt Stickman's earlier suggestion of deleting large Tree object files, and perhaps even large building object files as well.... perhaps there is a bug within one or more of those large detailed object files that only seems to cause issue with the Windows10 drivers....

Any thoughts or suggestions are truly appreciated. Thanks everyone!
:)

HurricaneHicken
BDG
Posts: 652
Joined: 15 Feb 2005

Re: Windows 10 success

Post HurricaneHicken »

Try setting water detail to low
God save the King!

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PV
BDG
Posts: 5155
Joined: 13 Nov 2004
Location: Lost in the tundra, Canada

Re: Windows 10 success

Post PV »

Ah, always crashing the same way, in ntdll.dll. Definitely
an issue with the way windows is handling the program,
and not something which provides any information on
the nature of the problem as we don't have any knowledge
of the structure of the windows library ntdll.dll. I have heard
that windows 10 has added its own functionality for some
alt-[?] keystrokes, so it may be a conflict is arising there.

two27
Master Sergeant
Posts: 1061
Joined: 17 Apr 2011

Re: Windows 10 success

Post two27 »

I looked up the Windows 10 key binds. Appears nearly all Alt-__ binds are reserved for application use (not the OS).

My hunch is that this crash is related to the Alt-Tab crashes in 3D. There is a great deal of memory shuffling and screen resolution adjustment when exiting the 3D. Is it possible the original code for this was not finished? I'd say yes.

By the way, I find the idea that objects loaded into 3D as the aircraft enters draw range interesting. You'd think that when a object is no longer in the draw range, it would be removed from memory.

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Cherkassov54
Staff Sergeant
Posts: 345
Joined: 01 Sep 2005
Location: Dundee

Re: Windows 10 success

Post Cherkassov54 »

I tried changing the exit key to Shift Z and it still crashes on exit.

Image

I dont know if the distortion in the picture means anything.
I have put W10 onto my old computer which is a bit lightweight now for BOB but with some minor adjustments it runs it ok until you want to leave.
If you go in and exit quickly it is ok so I think your right about it relating to items being loaded in.

S!

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Airmaric
Airman
Posts: 31
Joined: 06 Jul 2008
Location: Canada

Re: Windows 10 success

Post Airmaric »

Cherkassov54 - hi there, I just wanted to let you know I have had the EXACT same error. When my system has crashed upon Alt-X, that distorted photo you posted is exactly what I see as well.

I am still optimistic about finding a solution here, truly I am.

As of today - I have no further updates myself, I am still in the phase where I can fly great missions, enjoy some amazing aerial dogfights, but will most often crash upon exiting with Alt-X, especially so if I have flown near ground objects.

I have a few leads I hope to investigate further once "real life" offers me the time to properly get back into my time machine and fly a Hurricane, or an Me109 (as the mood of the day might have it!)

Some other unrelated threads I have been stalking have produced positive results with games that run on XP & Win7 but have had crashing /mem-dump issues with Win 10 by turning Off UAC (User Account Control) in Win10. By doing so, it has solved a few "classic" game issues...

I have not yet had the free time to try this with my system in BoBII, I have had a busy go of it in my real day-to-day world, but once some time opens up again I endeavor to start hacking away at BoBII again. It calls to me daily, even when I go for long stretches without answering it, in the back of my mind I always hear the sputter and rumble of those engines - they call me. I am ever hopeful we will find a way forward with this.

Regards,
Airmaric

regula50
Airman Basic
Posts: 4
Joined: 18 May 2011

Re: Windows 10 success

Post regula50 »

Same problem here. I like and I use always version 2.06 and I have also this problem with Windows 10 and the Alt-X to end the mission. The game crash always to the deckstop and the only compatbility mode accepted is Windows XP SP3 but always with this problem with Alt-X. Other compatabiity mode crash the game early by the mission screen entry.
Near certain is a graphic problem with the Direct X(Windows 10 Use Direct X 12.0)or other conflict in this line. My graphic card is nothing special, is a integrated Intel HD 530 using memory partaged and RAM is 16 GB, much more of enough.
I hope a solution can finded some day. By the moment I continued with the game with my other PC using Windows 7.

chrisreb
Airman
Posts: 10
Joined: 06 Dec 2005

Re: Windows 10 success

Post chrisreb »

same for me - tried all compatability settings - runs generally fine in 3d but crashes on Alt -X, such a shame as is best BOB game around and used to love playing it

two27
Master Sergeant
Posts: 1061
Joined: 17 Apr 2011

Re: Windows 10 success

Post two27 »

Has anyone tried using VMWare Player, then setting up Windows 7 to run inside it?

User avatar
ShadowShooter
Senior Airman
Posts: 139
Joined: 10 Mar 2011
Location: Queensland, Australia

Re: Windows 10 success

Post ShadowShooter »

two27 wrote:Has anyone tried using VMWare Player, then setting up Windows 7 to run inside it?
I have tried something similar. On a Windows7 PC, I set up VMWare Player to run Windows XP. The OS works fine, but there are limitations on the programs you can run because VMWare cannot be made to use the computer's graphics card. It will only use its own "virtual" graphics card, which has limited power.
I installed the basic BoB2 from the cd, but even with its lesser graphics demands it couldn't get any further than the options pages. The 3D game itself wouldn't open, giving up with a white screen.
You can adjust the amount of RAM allocated in the settings:
Image

And increase the virtual graphics memory available:
Image

But changing these didn't affect the results. I did manage to get an old edition of the 3ds-Max 3D modelling program to work ok, but complex 3D games seem to be a no-no.

two27
Master Sergeant
Posts: 1061
Joined: 17 Apr 2011

Re: Windows 10 success

Post two27 »

Thank you Shadowshooter. I have a friend who is a VMWare maintainer. I'll ask him about graphics.

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