The A2A Simulations Community

I realize that the f-104 starfighter is a long ways off, but I am brimming with excitement over its release, and can't help but ask a few questions, that I hope could be answered at this early of a date. The biggest one I have is, what kind of super-sonic effects are their going to be? From the ground, will you be able to hear the boom? Will the shock wave be visible when the craft breaks the sound barrier?

Thanks,

Torwal

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+1
I don't often fly jets, but even I'm exited about this project! The F-104 was a real challenge to fly (perfect for Accu Sim ) and I'd love to hear more.
One of the few jets I do like to fly on my P.C. is the T-38A (the trainer used for F-104 Pilots) which gives a little more warning before a stall and can't just be landed but flown onto the runway , it's a real challenge and I know that a F-104 from you guys will be an even bigger challenge .......CAN'T WAIT!!!!

Happy landings

m. Jordan

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I'm hoping to do a little bit of thisss

Maybe even

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Just like to point out that a person on the ground cannot hear the boom unless the aircraft is flying faster then the speed of sound at ground level. So... assuming the air is dry and 20C that mean if an aircraft is flying Mach 1 at 30,000ft a person on the ground wont hear the shockwave (boom) unless the aircraft is flying faster then 343.2 metres per second (768mph) at ground level. If the speed is slower the shockwave will actually curve back upwards.

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You can hear the boom at any altitude, for example shooting out in the desert of Barstow CA. In the middle of the day you couldn't see the fighters most of the time BUT you could definitely hear the boom from the ground. Sounded like a bomb detonation in the distance at first.

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I loved it when the Space Shuttle used to land in Edwards, that cool 'double-boom' sonic boom was the highlight of any day...

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© 2011 Peter J. Carlson, All Rights Reserved
"O! for a horse with wings!" -William Shakespeare

[quote="Blaze2456"]I'm hoping to do a little bit of thisss


Damn Blaze!!! Did you take that great shot of the USAF Heritage flight? I really hope to A) see all those planes (or comparable) fly together someday, and B) get a killer photograph of it!!!

Thus far last year (my first photographing) I've seen the P-51/A-10 (x2), P-51/F-15/A-10 and the V-22/1911 Ely-Curtiss Pusher as Heritage Flights. I'm really hoping to see some variation this year (P-38, F-4, F-22, etc) for some nice photos!

Joe

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Sorry Blaze, but the shockwave will not reach the ground unless the aircraft is going faster then the speed of sound at ground level. When you hear the boom out in Barstow it's because those aircraft are flying faster then the speed of sound at ground level.

From the US Airforce...



Also a sonic boom will not harm a person again from the US Airforce...

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"For example, the speed of sound at 30,000 feet is about 670 miles per hour, but an aircraft must travel at least 750 miles per hour (Mach 1.12, where Mach 1 equals the speed of sound) for a boom to be heard on the ground." The guy's above that day were no doubt flying faster than 750 miles per hour!

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A sonic boom certainly can be heard from the ground, I used to live under the final approach for Heathrow so all of my family knew very well what Concorde sounded like. Visiting friends in Mid Wales we heard that unmistakable sound followed by a boom! The people there just simply didn't know what it was! ( the Concorde shouldn't have broken the sound barrier untill it was over the sea because of the sonic boom disturbing people....but it did!).

M. Jordan.

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The sound you heard in mid Wales was unlikely to have come from Concorde. I was familiar with Concorde routes and procedures on a daily basis and apart from very rare testing from Warton over the Irish sea many years ago, this is an example of the standard route;

[color=#BFFF00](FPL-BAW1-IS
= Flightplan for BAW1
-CONC/H-SRWXY/C
= Type is Concorde/Standard equipment fitted/Mode C transponder (which transmits information from the cockpit to Air Traffic Control allowing ATC to track the aircraft's position, speed, altitude etc.)
-EGLL1730
= Departing London-Heathrow at 1730 Zulu
-N0563F280
= Initial speed will be 563 knots and initial altitude will be flight level 2 8 0 (28,000ft).
CPT L9 MALBY DCT C/UPGAS/N0740F280F430
= Depart on the Compton Standard Instrument Departure(SID) and then follow the L9 airway to waypoint MALBY and then direct to waypoint UPGAS, at which time speed will be increased to 740 knots and the aircraft will enter 'cruise climb' which is a gradual climb from FL280 to FL430 (28,000ft to 43,000ft). Because Concorde had a lot more drag than other aircraft, it was allowed to fly at a faster speed on the departure routing than other aircraft. So where normal subsonic aircraft would generally be limited to 250 knots below 10,000ft, Concorde would be allowed to fly at 270 knots.
SL2 MERLY SL2 LESLU SL2 C/5041N01500W/M200F450PLUS NATSM 4700N05000W 4246N06500W 42N067W
= Follow the SL2 airway to coordinates 5041N01500W (which is shown on the diagram above as SM15W), at which time speed will increase to Mach 2 and the aircraft will increase its altitude to FL450+ and will probably reach a maximum altitude of FL590 (59,000ft). The reason its given FL450+ and not an exact altitude is because it is well above all other aircraft so the only thing that will conflict with it are very high level fighters/bombers.
SM2A KENDA/M100F490 DCT LINND DCT OWENZ DCT CAMRN DCT
= Continue following the SM track to waypoint KENDA, at which point the aircraft will be at FL490 (49,000ft) and speed will reduce to Mach 1. It will continue along the filed routing until CAMRN, at which point it will join one of the standard arrival routings (STARs) for New York JFK.
-KJFK0328 KEWR
= Journey time to New York JFK will be 3hrs and 28mins. Newark Airport will be the alternate airport.
-EET/EGGX0046 20W0058 30W0118 40W0139 50W0202 53W0209 60W0226 65W0239 67W0245 KENDA0258 LINND0303 OWENZ0310 CAMRN0318
= Estimated Enroute Times. Will enter Shanwick(EGGX) airspace 46mins into flight, will cross 20W 58mins into flight, will cross 30W 1hr and 18mins into flight etc etc
REG/GBOAG SEL/BHFJ RMK/TCASEQUIPPED DOF/031023 IFP/RVSMVIOLATION ORGN/EGLLBAWD)
Aircraft registration is G-BOAG and the SELCAL for the aircraft is BHFJ. Remarks are that the aircraft is TCAS (Traffic Collission Avoidance System) equipped and the Date Of Flight was October 23rd 2003. The plan is not in accordance with RVSM levels and was originated at British Airways Ops in London Heathrow.[/color]

More than likely the booms you heard were from military aircraft using the North Wales MTA.

I've heard sonic booms from the French Concorde while sailing across the Channel. That's because they flew from Paris to mid channel and being over water were permitted supersonic. As you can see from the the flight plan the standard SST took it from about Woodley direct to Lands End.
I posted this in the hope that as a Concorde lover you may find it interesting.
[edit]
I've just had another look at this and think the bit about drag is wrong. It's because it has LESS drag not more that it needs to fly faster Anyway the route is correct
[further edit] Whoever wrote the explanatory notes could have done a better job. The note about 450+ is also because Concorde was permitted to "cruise climb" That is because it was fuel critical and was allowed to climb automatically as it burnt fuel.

Regards

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POTR
"Only birds and fools fly and even the birds don't fly at night"

Hi Phantom-o-t-Ruhr
You may be right! military jets do fly regulary over Mid Wales (they scare my Uncle regulary ), we couldn't see it but it did sound like Concorde. Still the boom we heard was definitely a sonic boom from the jet.
I both loved and hated the Concorde, a wonderful plane but far too loud if you live under the final approach. I imagine people living close to air bases had the same view of the F-104.

Happy flights

M. Jordan

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I had a similar love/hate relationship with the beast. Not only did the vibration occasionally knock a roof slate off my house but the extra procedures involved during our busiest time, were a pain in the arris. It was also often late due to faults, so had to cancel previous clearances and start again!

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POTR
"Only birds and fools fly and even the birds don't fly at night"