Joined: Tue Jan 04, 2011 10:24 pm Posts: 1849 Location: California, United States of America
Killratio wrote:
I'd love an Accusim Camel..and have exactly the same sort of info on her as I have for the Spitfire...more than enough to get the accurate modelling needed..AND there are two that I know of flying WITH proper Rotary Engines. (the rest are Radial and not suitable to research Accusim.
BUT if people didn't like the Spitfire catching fire if abused..they will HATE teh Camel catching fire if holding it "blipped" too long, or, in fact, many times for no particular reason at all!!
I do have real Biplane however (not Camel!) time and they are a whole different experience. It would be great!!
D
I already sent this message to Scott a month or two ago:
pjc747 wrote:
So I've been intrigued by the following prospect: What would the Accusim modeling of a rotary engine-driven aircraft, such as the Sopwith Camel, be like?
It is a very interesting idea. A2A have made the Supermarine Spitfire, which along with the P-51 Mustang, is perhaps the most famous airplane of World War Two. The advance into the jet age is very interesting, and that in itself offers its own challenges. However, my latest thought process has brought me to think about the Sopwith Camel; she downed the Red Baron, she helped save Europe, and she was indeed the most famous, and able fighter of World War One. She flew twenty years before the Spitfire, British, maneuverable, and powered by the most interesting of engines, the rotary. The Camel was known for its challenging flight characteristics, unique handleing, and its versatility as a fighter. So my query is not whether Accusim is capable of doing a rotary engine, but what it, along with the Sopwith Camel's behavior, would bring to the table in regards to the extended modeling of flight physics, engine maintenance, and all-around simulation.
The Sopwith Camel's rotary engine gave it great right torque; in a right turn she would go quickly and try to descend, in the left turn, she was slow, and liked to climb. Pilots would perform a 270-degree turn right to achieve a 90-degree left course correction, because such a motion (270-degrees) could be completed in the same time as a 90-degree turn. The rotary engines themselves, the Clerget 9B, Le Rhône 9J, Bentley BR1, and Gnome Monosoupape 9N were all very unique engines. The engine itself spun with the propeller, it had no exhaust system because of this spinning, and it had both a lack or risk for oil pressure loss, and the constant loss of oil as it operated. It had a very unique sound, depending on the engine, as each of the nine cylinder's single valves opened, as it spun in motion. The simulation of these different throttle systems, and the engine itself would be a very attractive and eye-catching feature for customers, I ensure.
I can also say that the progression of artificial intelligence would be something to consider; the pilot could be able to call his virtual ground crew to start the engine (or do it himself), and remove the chalks. The engine management could possibly be expanded, so that the user could oil the valves on the engine, and do other necessary changes to the engine itself for proper operation. So many things to consider! It would be quite a different project, and could achieve many new things.
I believe that just one excursion into the First World War's aircraft, with the most famous of all, would be a popular and worth-while experience. It could be an all-new learning experience, building on Accusim's flight physics, engine modeling, and artificial intelligence, and recreating a plane that has captured the imaginations not only of those children who gazed at her golden days of flight, but of all those since who have been enamored by the one plane that helped shape both the political futures of the world, and the world of aviation itself.
Imagine how great that would be to recreate the final in-air scene, and the great achievements of both aviation engineers, and the great minds at A2A, represent the evolution and legend of flight, together.
Now with your knowledge and access, I see means and motive for such a great project! What engines are flying? I know there's a Gnome, are there any with the Bentley BR1? There's other BR1's running, I'm sure modeling it together wouldn't be all-too challenging...
Joined: Mon Oct 19, 2009 7:44 pm Posts: 388 Location: Littleton, CO, USA
It would be so cool if, after the jets on A2A's plate come out, they go retro with some classics. Perhaps the Camel could spawn the creation of Accu-Flames
All this talk of the WWI birds... here's a couple of pics of Old Rhinebeck's Fokker, Spad and Sopwith which I took in 2010, in case anyone is interested:
whilst i'd love ww1 birds, the opion of many is that there 2 slow and boreing, i disagree with that entirely, however ww1 planes are a niche withen a niche
whilst i'd love ww1 birds, the opion of many is that there 2 slow and boreing, i disagree with that entirely, however ww1 planes are a niche withen a niche
Agreed. I can only imagine an Accu-simmed rotary engine with no tail wheel or brakes. Wasn't the Camel's engine either full throttle or off? That would be a ride!
I'd love an Accusim Camel..and have exactly the same sort of info on her as I have for the Spitfire...more than enough to get the accurate modelling needed..AND there are two that I know of flying WITH proper Rotary Engines. (the rest are Radial and not suitable to research Accusim.
BUT if people didn't like the Spitfire catching fire if abused..they will HATE teh Camel catching fire if holding it "blipped" too long, or, in fact, many times for no particular reason at all!!
I do have real Biplane however (not Camel!) time and they are a whole different experience. It would be great!!
D
Darryl- Do you know where those two are? The one I saw at Old Rhinebeck in 2010 they stopped flying in 2009 due to safety concerns with the rotary engine. They still fire up the engine for the crowd, but that is it. I'd love to see one flying again (I did see Rhinebeck's Camel fly many years ago, but was too young to appreciate it fully).
I have a good friend who is refered to as Islander because he "is loud, slow and carries a bit of extra weight".
D
Joe,
The Camels...one is indeed in NZ, the other, I must appologise for being ot of date, was the OR bird...shows how long it is since i lost touch with my WW1 roots. The rotary in the Camel (or Rotaries, they used Le Rhone, Clerget and BRs) had a primitive throttle arrangement that was a bit, in effect, like later linked throttle/mixture arrangements..working as they did more on adjusting fuel air mix than fuel flow. It gave, from memory about 1/4 or so throttle variation, not enough to be useful really. Landing was achieved by "Blip" switch which cut the ignition sparks. Consequently, raw fuel and oil still poured into the cylinders. THAT could make things interesting when you reintroduced the spark
I seem to recall the OR Camel getting away from a pilot and heading for a hangar. I suppose that led to the grounding, if not caused it outright? Fire, torque and general lack of reliability are all associated with rotary engine operation. I'm not surprised if some suit without a pilot's licence and probably with a university degree in being a wally, moved to stop such foolishness. Most pilots would accept those risks gladly for the chance to fly such a historic aircraft. I know I would!
Now, where is the address of that N17 build I was invited to help out on?
D
_________________ ...Some say he never blinks, and that he roams around the woods at night foraging for Merlin parts...
Thanks for the info on the throttles Darryl- I didn't realize there was any range at all, I simply thought it was on or off. The Rhinebeck Camel did indead head for a hangar... the video (not mine) is here: Btw you'll cringe!
Not fun to watch, at all, but the engine sound is wonderful.
The museum also has a 1914 Caudron G.III with a rotary, which they still fly... not nearly as much torque issue I imagine as the Sopwith...
Joined: Mon Oct 19, 2009 7:44 pm Posts: 388 Location: Littleton, CO, USA
Yeah, I was having a little chat with God the other day about how I was born about 80 years too late and all. He just chuckled and didn't say anything...
It would be so cool if, after the jets on A2A's plate come out, they go retro with some classics. Perhaps the Camel could spawn the creation of Accu-Flames
If A2A makes a Camel, I just might name my firstborn child, "A2A simulations".
whilst i'd love ww1 birds, the opion of many is that there 2 slow and boreing, i disagree with that entirely, however ww1 planes are a niche withen a niche
Agreed. I can only imagine an Accu-simmed rotary engine with no tail wheel or brakes. Wasn't the Camel's engine either full throttle or off? That would be a ride!
Joe
That would be kinda like FLY OR DIE.... But i think your right about the full or off.
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Most pilots would accept those risks gladly for the chance to fly such a historic aircraft. I know I would!
) and Curtiss Wright Junior CW-1
