The A2A Simulations Community

Hey there guys,

I got through a succesful flight, which was VERY fun. However, I used reverse due to it being a short runway, and I was unable to turn it off. The engine 2 (which was having difficulity earlier) failed, and my engines locked in reverse. If I set the parking brake, it works, but, obviously I cant move and that is when the engine failed.

Advise would be great!

SICK plane!

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Collin Biedenkapp

-Seven miles in any direction is no where near as much fun as seven miles up-

< - - - - - My Teamspeak Status (Can be up to 15 minutes behind)

Did you try this?

First hit F1 to make sure the throttles are in idle
hold F2 to set reverse
hold F3 to unreverse till the engines are idling again
use throttles as usual

That's how the manual describes it

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Oskar

i7-2600k OC 4.4 GHz, ASUS P8Z68-V PRO, WIN7-64Bit, 8GB DDR3 1600MHz, 1x OCZ Vertex 120 GB, 1 x OCZ Ibis 480 GB, 1 x GeForce GTX 580, 1200 W Power Supply, 2 monitors, ASE, EFB on remote PC

That isnt how I was doing it, thanks!

I am not used to a plane that actually makes you read a manual for it to fly right! It is revolutionary for me, and I am excited to learn!

_________________
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Collin Biedenkapp

-Seven miles in any direction is no where near as much fun as seven miles up-

< - - - - - My Teamspeak Status (Can be up to 15 minutes behind)

I had this exact same thing happen to me today....# 2 engine had to have the RPM set manually from start up to shut down... I put her down on a ~6500 ft. runway...
1)....I left my throttle control on the joystick at the current setting that I had it at during landing
2)....hit F1 on touchdown to induce "idle" thrust
3)....hit F2 to engage "reverse" thrust
4)....hit F3 to bring out of "reverse" thrust, just prior to coming to a full stop...I was still rolling
5)....Throttles "STUCK"....but I could engage the "reverse" thrust option ...repeatedly...and bring them out of the reverse thrust...but could not advance them out of the "F3" mode to move the aircraft
6)....throttle on joystick failed to engage....engines were not off and appeared to be at idle, no power...had to slew over to a parking space
7)....engine #2 had degraded to "Fair"...all others were "Excellent"
....all engines had been overhauled just prior to this flight
9).... if it may help I had accidentally "Reset" my career mode just prior to this flight while dragging that "career" mode box around and the maintenance hanger box...I'm funny that way...I don't like things overlapping...and that AFK box
10)....all COTS features worked during flight. Aircraft worked fine except the manual setting for the RPM
11)....I have an old humble and rumble Microsoft FFB II joystick, it has never failed me using this method since I purchased the old girl...the Strat...

You got me!?

Just to be clear and reiterate what Oskar said: You can't "hit" F3. The procedure is to pull your throttles to idle (and hitting F1 can help, just to be sure), then you hold F2 down to deliver the desired amount of Reverse. When you want to come out of reverse, you have to hold F3 down until you see the RPMs rise again...Just as F2 is incrementally increasing the amount of reverse, F3 is incrementally decreasing it, until you are back into positive territory again.

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1)i7 980x 4.35 ghz, gtx 470s SLI, Matrox th2go, Creative x-fi
2)i7 2600k, Gigabyte z68x, gtx 285s sli

And in addition to all that has been said:

It is ALWAYS a bad habit to leave no matter what (proportional) control at a certain setting and "oversteer" it by a button command. Even if everybody starts yelling at me and telling me that they have always done it before Whatever control you have set to whatever position and oversteered by a button command may or may not return sooner or later to it's setting by moving any other control on that same controller. This is how things are set up in FSX (and former versions) and there is no reason to discuss it.

So if you say that you left the throttle where you had it on landing and the induced idle by hitting F1 I assume that you did not have the throttle at idle upon landing. This will screw up the whole reversing process sooner or later becasue the throttle lever is not commanding idle anymore. So as a conclusion: make sure that your throttle is in idle before any attempt to set reverse.

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Oskar

i7-2600k OC 4.4 GHz, ASUS P8Z68-V PRO, WIN7-64Bit, 8GB DDR3 1600MHz, 1x OCZ Vertex 120 GB, 1 x OCZ Ibis 480 GB, 1 x GeForce GTX 580, 1200 W Power Supply, 2 monitors, ASE, EFB on remote PC

Copy that, bigjuicyspider...I've always hit & held F1, F2 and F3 buttons.


@ lonewulf47,

After reviewing you comments and reviewing my actions in the cockpit as to what I may have done differently this time...

1) I have begun using the technique of leaving the throttle control on my MS FFB II just above idle...... to help me maintain some sort of + power setting, as I take my left hand off the throttle control and move it over to the keyboard to engage F1 & hold to idle, then F2 & hold to engage reverse, then F3 & hold to come out of reverse...then I move my left hand back to the MS FFB II throttle controller.
...so I should "idle" the joystick throttle only and keep my hand off the keyboard's F1 key...

2)

hummm, must be like that dang old "push back & turn the nose left or right" command that I can never get to work or the rare "Shift + E" for the canopy open or close, that has caught me a few times.

back @ bigjuicyspider,



That could have been a factor also. I was afraid that I might have overshot the end of the~ 6500 ft. runway, so this time I
held F2
...1 Mississippi....2 Mississippi...3 Mississippi...4 Mississippi....5 Mississippi...
held F3
...1 Mississippi....2 Mississippi...3 Mississippi...4 Mississippi....5 Mississippi...

I will get in a little more practice time on short field landings

No offense intended for our fine neighbors just due west of our state line...

Thank you both for the insight and helpful suggestions.

Flameout,

Instead of counting the seconds to depress the buttons (or in my case, mapped to a rocker switch), I actually just look at the engine indications. When you are holding F3 down, (with your hardware throttles physically in idle of course), watch your engine guages. Practice it a few times. You will be able to tell when the Props come out of reverse, and then you will be good to go with your hardware throttle(s) again.

Also, If you experience this rather common quirk again, the solution is simple: Just put your throttles back to Idle and Hold down F3 a little more. It will work.

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1)i7 980x 4.35 ghz, gtx 470s SLI, Matrox th2go, Creative x-fi
2)i7 2600k, Gigabyte z68x, gtx 285s sli

I've read this thread and the myriad others on this topic. The only thing I've noticed that has not been mentioned is if when having the ("issue"/"non-issue") if i tap my parking brakes, the throttles work as advertized. If I do not, I can go into/out of reverse all day long, but cannot advance the throttles past "neutral" on the way out. I only tried the parking brake thing after reading that it "locks" the throttles.

I do not notice parking brakes making any difference engaged or disengaged on the throttles, except for "unlocking" (allowing the throttle to advance into positive range using joystick or F3) when I experience the reverser issue.

This solution works for me, so I'm happy. I'm really just posting this in case this info helps someone else, or sparks an idea on what is happening for some of us and not others.

Stock FSX + Accel on a win 7 machine. Just did a clean install of FSX + accel a week ago to try and eliminate any variables. Only extras are the other A2A planes and Ian's airfields. I bought the COTS and 377 package when it came out in July, so no SP1 for 377 per the instructions.

Default flight is the B17 cold and dark with brakes on, and I switch to the 377 in the Free flight GUI when I want to fly it.

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-mike

Blackhawks, I'm not a big proponent of using a "complex" payware airplane as a default flight. I can't cite anything specific, but I strongly believe that the best way to do things is to have your default flight be the Cessna or even the default, default UltraTrike.

This correlation you are reporting between Brakes and Throttles on the 377 is quite odd, but I will tell you that I have encountered some weirdness on the B-17 Differential Brakes compared to other airplanes. (They work strangely if you map them through FSUIPC, which leads me to believe there is something quite unique about them). I don't know if its possible that using the B-17 as a default Flight could affect how certain things get set on the Stratocruiser, but if it isn't too much of a pain, it might just be safer to use a Stock airplane as your default.

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1)i7 980x 4.35 ghz, gtx 470s SLI, Matrox th2go, Creative x-fi
2)i7 2600k, Gigabyte z68x, gtx 285s sli

Thanks for looking at this again.
Just to be clear, on your 377, when the parking brakes are on, is the throttle locked? Or am I not remembering the manual correctly?

I'll try switching the default flight to brakes off, and see if anything changes.

If the default flight simply being the b17 is the cause, I'll just live with the symptom.

The only time I use the reversers is if I'm quickly running out of runway, so coming to a complete stop after use to toggle the brakes is the least of my worries.

I agree with your theory about the default flight is safer from issues using a default aircraft, but I've never experienced any issues (other than this possible one) having an A2A plane as the default over hundreds of flights.

Long story short, I need the 17 to be the plane in the preview window for the repaints. I've not had any luck with the 3rd party programs that claim to be able to preview the model without starting FSX.
So having anything but my "in progress" 17 model pop up in the box would add significant time to the overall project through extra clicking/waiting.

Thanks again, and glad I'm in the minority with this "issue." For an add-on I was on the fence about getting, I'm flying the 377 with COTS more than anything else lately.

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-mike

Don't confuse the Throttle brake with the Parking brake with the Reverse Lock. If only the Parking Brakes are engaged we ought to be able to move the throttles, and I've never seen that be an issue.

However, I just fired up the 377 and looked at whether or not you can go into or out of REVERSE or not with the parking brakes engaged. What I found is that when sitting on the ground, I couldn't go into reverse with the Parking Brakes engaged... I don't know if that is historically accurate, because I can't find that in the real life manual, but of course you would never ever want to do that anyway, since you will tip the airplane onto its tail. It definitely shouldn't interfere with your ability to go into or out of reverse on your landing rollout, since your PB will obviously not be engaged, but I can't reproduce the problem you are having. Even so, if it helps to toggle the parking brakes before landing, than keep on doing so!!!

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1)i7 980x 4.35 ghz, gtx 470s SLI, Matrox th2go, Creative x-fi
2)i7 2600k, Gigabyte z68x, gtx 285s sli

Ok last bit and I'll leave it be.

Got home tonight wiped all of the a2a planes off of my machine. Set DC3 at princess juliana (brakes off) as the default flight. I then installed (right click as administrator as always) and loaded the base 377, ran out to the runway, got some speed 80+ kts and then ran reverse procedure per manual and all of Oskar and your posts. Worked like a charm.

Installed COTS, did the same thing, also worked exactly as advertized.

I then felt cocky and installed the COTS update... ran the same drill, but it wont come back from Neutral after reverse. Idle and reverse at will, but it won't return to positive throttle. Not with f3, joystick, or mouse. (Clicking on throttle handle with mouse won't actually move it any direction.

So what could have changed in the update? Again 377 base and COTS pre update go into and out of reverse at will. However, COTS 1.1 once into reverse, will only return to throttle idle. This time my parking brake on/off trick did not work either.

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-mike

So you are saying that now you can't get out of reverse at all? So with your hardware throttles in Idle, you hold F2 down to get your desired amount of Reverse. Then, you hold F3 down for enough time to pull you back up past the detent, but it remains locked there below it? I've been trying to reproduce this, but I can't as of yet. Can you get out of reverse if you hit F1?

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1)i7 980x 4.35 ghz, gtx 470s SLI, Matrox th2go, Creative x-fi
2)i7 2600k, Gigabyte z68x, gtx 285s sli

EDIT(i was a bit ambiguous): F1 no response once in reverse. Correct, I can get into reverse and back to detent at will, but cannot advance forward of detent using any prescribed method.

Thanks again for your help Spider but please don't waste too much of your time on this.

Only after the COTS 1.1 update:
Close joystick throttle.
F1
F2 up to the desired amount of reverse.
F3 will bring me back to detent, but not into positive thrust. I can re-enter reverse, and back to detent at will.
If I watch the throttle animation, it raises up and then goes into the reverse range. F3 then brings it back to detent and drops the handle back down to "normal" but nothing will make it advance from there.
(press and hold and tap both work on F2 and F3 in all scenarios)

I've tried adjusting null zone, calibrating basic Logitech joystick, (extreme 3d pro), etc.

If I rollback COTS update to the original version, it works fine once again. I'm still searching for the "conflict" on my machine because not everyone is experiencing this problem. I'm really running out of ideas though.

They canceled the Aluminum Overcast stop in Kenosha this weekend so I have some time to fiddle with this today. I'm once again clearing off all traces of FSX and defragging and starting clean just in case something held over from one of my many past experiments. If that doesn't work, I guess I just have to become a better pilot and pretend the reversers are broken.

Maybe this update has finally pushed FSX passed my computer specs? I've always been on the low end, But I've been able to run all the accusim products in an acceptable fps range with no issues.

acer aspire 5810 laptop, u2700 1.3ghz (shut up, my battery lasts for 5 hours ), 3 gig of ram, FSX+accel, win 7 32 bit.

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-mike