The A2A Simulations Community

I just made my first proper flight at night and I noticed something that is a bit annoying. At night I like to switch off the cabin lights once in a while in order to have a better view outside, without the bright cockpit panel blinding me, to look for landmarks or to just enjoy the nightly landscape, but my overzealous FO turns the lights back on as soon as I flip the switch. Would it be possible to leave the cabin light control to the Captain in a future patch, please?

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Happy Landings
- Patrick

I second Jigsaw's comment. I am surprised that there are not different light controls for the the flight deck and passenger cabin.

I third that request.
A rheostat type controller that can go from total dark to full bright would be very nice.
I find my eyes get tired at night on long flights especially working at the flight engineers position.
Great suggestion.

I Agree. Too bright at night.

I find the lighting to be right. It is bright, and it is supposed to be bright.

Best regards,
Robin.

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A2A/AccuSim. 'nuff said!

Sorry Robin, but I disagree with that statement. You should never have bright lights in a cockpit/flight deck when operating the aircraft at night. It causes night blindness and accidents.

It's OK on the ground while carrying out preparation and early pre-flight tasks, but after that lighting should be indirect, dim and preferably monochrome (although monochrome illumination is a comparatively new thing and probably wasn't the case when the B377 was being developed). If the crew are suffering from night blindness while trying to fly, then they vastly increase the likelihood that they will become disorientated or simply not see something and run into it. You also get reflection off the windows/screen, reducing visibility further still.

As I understand it, the point being made on this thread is that you should be able to have the cabin lights switched independently of the flight deck lights. That seems a perfectly valid point to me and yes, I have flown real aircraft at night and yes, I am very aware of the effects of flash/night blindness first hand (although thankfully not while flying the aircraft!)

Cheers,

Ian P.

When you don't have back-light glass screens in a modern airliner, you want red lighting, as it doesn't effect your night vision, blue/purple also works, but red insures no night vision changes.

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© 2011 Peter J. Carlson, All Rights Reserved
"O! for a horse with wings!" -William Shakespeare

I can point to a myriad of airliners where the lighting is bright. Guess what? With the cabin altitude at typically 8500 ft, your night vision is 1/2 of what it is at sea level to start with.

Finally, when night flying, the aircraft is IFR and the requirement to see out doesn't exist in the first place.

http://www.airliners.net/photo/Iran-Air ... 1941366/L/

This is a typical lighting configuration during flight when not landing or taking off. Even then, when landing, the lighting is often illuminating the forward panel.

http://www.airliners.net/photo/Iberia/A ... 1310028/L/

http://www.airliners.net/photo/Aserca-A ... 1217687/L/

http://www.airliners.net/photo/Air-Euro ... 0752737/L/

etc...

Best regards,
Robin.

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A2A/AccuSim. 'nuff said!

Green has been used as well, especially in military aircraft for reasons best left known to the US DoD (I've only ever seen it in US military aircraft), as has orange (sodium).

You're right though, Peter, that dim red has been used for years as it is considered to have the least effect. A lot of submariners will tell you the same thing for the same reason too. At night, the control room of a sub is red lit, so that when someone looks through a periscope, they haven't lost their night vision.

The trick, whatever the colour, is that it has to be monochrome. This means that although it can damage your ability to see one specific colour, all the other areas of the spectrum are still visible. Bright, broad spectrum, white light, especially where the source can be seen (such as an overhead light) is deadly at night.

I don't understand why you're being argumentative Robin, because actually, in IFR flight, you really do still have to be able to see out of the windows for reasons of safety, especially during takeoff and landing. IFR flight does not always - in fact the vast majority of the time does not - take place in cloud or low visibility conditions. Visibility can be hundreds of miles, but if you are in airspace that requires you to file IFR, you are flying IFR.

You say you can point to a lot of airliners where the light is bright, I will tell you now, as a plain and simple fact, that those overhead lights are OFF in flight unless absolutely necessary. Panel and flightdeck illumination is dim, monochrome and indirect. There is always a shield between the light source and the pilot's eye for exactly the reasons already stated.

All the best,

Ian P.

Night-vision compatible lighting. Requires modified flight deck to make it NVG friendly.


I already said that.

My information is based on real-world operations, not something I read off the 'net.

I'm not being argumentative, just correcting the point that in flight the lighting as it is is fine. It isn't even that bright in the sim, compared to other lighting schemes.

Go back to my post where I simply stated that the lighting as-is is fine.

Best regards,
Robin.

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A2A/AccuSim. 'nuff said!

Me neither. All I asked for was the ability to use the switch that is there to be used, without getting overridden by my subordinate FO. I didn't ask for a change of the lighting.

_________________
Happy Landings
- Patrick

...hence my posts, and starting to become "argumentative". I was simply stating things as they are in the real-world, every day, during airline operations.

Best regards,
Robin.

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A2A/AccuSim. 'nuff said!

I won't photocopy my pilot's license and ratings to show you, Robin, because it would be illegal to do so. You do, however, assume too much, sir, and are incorrect again. Indeed it is actually unnecessary, as you can prove it yourself either driving in a car at night, or even just with a torch and a dimly/unlit bit of the world.

I am qualified and experienced in what I am talking about (except the green light bit - thanks!) and the fact remains that while yes, you are correct, the overhead light will be bright when illuminated, you are incorrect that vision outside the aircraft is not necessary in IFR conditions. See And Avoid is always the pilot's responsibility and procedures - certainly those that I have had to learn off by heart - state that the overhead light is only to be used if absolutely necessary during flight and must be off for takeoff and landing.

I don't think I have any further input to this thread.

Ian P.

Do you know anything about commercial airline operations? I even posted plenty of photos from A.net to demonstrate my point.

Sure, in light aircraft you run a pretty much dark cockpit with just minimal backlighting/panel lighting, but airliners do not. As we are talking about the 377, which is a large multi-crew airliner and not a small single crew light aircraft, I'm taking the airline way of operations. The FE and Navigator need to be able to see what they're doing, and it appears neither have back-lit instruments, and neither do the pilots.

Best regards,
Robin.

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A2A/AccuSim. 'nuff said!

Cabin lights are important to see your instruments and switches, yet they must be lit properly so that it doesn't obstruct your night vision. I am young, but I know a lot about commercial aviation, and I have my sources, who are people with tens of thousands of flight hours; and many of my troubles and experiences in this forum are the ways I go about my opinions, not the facts themselves. We all are, and so am I, correct in our statements about night vision, so just drop it! You'll regret a long argument like I did...

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© 2011 Peter J. Carlson, All Rights Reserved
"O! for a horse with wings!" -William Shakespeare