The A2A Simulations Community

Yes the screenshots are from 2009, I would say that this is a long project for the team which of course has higher priorities projects to work on (no idea, just making guesses).

I'm really looking forward to the F-4., one of my favorite a/c.

_________________

It still would be cool if A2A could give us a small update. I always like to see progress on such a project.

_________________

If not an F-4 update, then perhaps an update on the F-104?

[quote="Oesau"]I would say that this is a long project for the team which of course has higher priorities projects to work on [/quote]

There can be no higher priority than getting a decent 'Double Ugly' into FSX! LOL

Al

I wouldn't hold breath if I were you

Both Rhino and Zipper even though iconic fighters of their time, are pretty much the most challenging to pull of in FSX sim. I believe the FSX flight model can't handle those jets properly, Both have fully movable elevators which FSX doesn't support. The Rhino's elevators also are anhedral. All over the F-4 airframe there are vortex generators (which FSX doesn't support), slats, and I don't think FSX understand what "lifting body" means

The F-104 is also challenging, with it's short, and thin wings.

The FM for those two would have to be written from scratch (which would greatly enhance Accu-sim system), and then there's the J79 engine, plus complex electrical systems, those are all uncharted territory for A2A, and making it work will take a while, we have to be patient and will see both... in Ms Flight II

_________________
Chris Oleksy

Beautiful vid of Collings Foundation Phantom and Skyraider in HD.
http://vimeo.com/5749330

_________________

Very nice video phantom Thanks for sharing!

_________________
Lukas

With regard to what FSX does and does not support getting in the way of creating a decent Phantom, most of this is not really a huge big deal for a good developer, and let's face it, A2A have a good claim to being the best FS developer there is. As with getting most things to work in any host program which has a prescribed SDK list of standard features, it merely requires a bit of thought to choose the best way to go about it, and in the case of simulating a complex aeroplane for FS, there are several ways one can approach the issues one might run into.

A very simple example of tackling such problems would be the extremely common developer trick of utilising sim function calls such as the raising and lowering the concord visor, or the folding and unfolding of the wings, as placeholders for animations which have no standard call in the sim. This is of course an easy thing to achieve, in fact you could do it with FS Design Studio or GMax without needing any particularly specialised abilities at all, which is why we see it so often in both payware and freeware efforts. Beyond that simple expedient to get around visual difficulties, where systems are concerned, custom xml stuff which runs 'outside' of what might be thought of as 'standard FSX' may be a bit more complex, but it is hardly unknown territory for any reasonably competent developer; witness the fact that pretty much every half decent payware FS aircraft has a custom autopilot of some kind to get around the basic limitations of the default autopilot, which is a common example of this approach to expanding the capabilities of FS.

There is certainly enough capability in FS to allow one to simulate vortex generators and indeed the 'hot air blower' lift increasing systems of the F-4 if a decent flight model developer is given the task, and is determined enough. After all, look at Third Wire's host combat sim engine; theoretically that doesn't support rotary-winged flight at all, but that fact hasn't stopped several people using various workarounds to get choppers flying in the host sim. Back with the MS sim, Captain Sim recently managed to get rockets bombs, cannons and even guided missiles to work in FSX in spite of this too not being something the sim is supposed to support without the traditional route of jumping through hoops with mission objects. Over at PMDG, they've got a collimated HUD working in the VC of their 737NG and they're not the only ones to have pulled that off either. These are just a few examples of what can be done with host sims when one really tries.

In short, the very reason we'll be happy to pay the price for A2A's efforts, is because they will be addressing these things in just such a 'can do' fashion. Thus, some of what might be thought of as stumbling blocks for an enthusiastic amateur having a go with FSDS and the standard FS capabilities, are certainly not going to be a problem for A2A, because we are talking about being on another level here when regarding the work of high end developers, one where things are viewed as a challenge rather than an impasse. After all, one only has to look at their B-17G with its superb engine simulation, or the Shockwave Lights utility 'doing the undoable' for us to know that A2A won't take no for an answer when it comes to regarding what is and is not possible in FS.

This doesn't mean knocking up a decent Phantom II will be a doddle of course, but if anyone can do it, it will be A2A. Now if only the Collings Foundation can get an F-105 going...

Al

In current state of advancement in FSX addons, when talking about technicalities nothing seems to be impossible, it only takes time and effort, and that's what A2A proven this far. The problem with both F-104 and F-4, and all other jets of the "century series" is, the amount of those speed bumps is pretty much as high as one can get without venturing into the FBW area. Lot's of complicated systems, pneumatic, hydraulic, electrical, jet engines and avionics. It will be great to run U-2 intercept training missions in Zipper, and taking the Rhino downtown from the deck of USS Saratoga, but it will take a long time before that happens.

Everything can be done right, and I have trust in A2A that it will be done that way. Although I do think that going for the Rhino, and Zipper is quite a high jump from WW2 props. I do wonder if it wouldn't be wiser to go for the F-86/FJ-4 first instead.

_________________
Chris Oleksy

I would respectfully suggest that any "fears" one might have about reproducing the systems and flight model behaviors of both the F4 and the 104 using the infrastructure available within FSX are misplaced.

There is nothing that "abnormal" about either the aerodynamics or the internal systems involved with these aircraft really.

I remember dealing with just this issue back in FS2004 as an adviser to Cloud9 when they were doing their F4 and 104. Even back then, and without the benefit of Accusim, what Alberto Sangalli and his designers did with both these aircraft was remarkable.

With the advent of Accusim into the design equation, I would project that when these 2 aircraft come on line rolling out of the A2A hangar, they will represent not only museum quality replicas of both airplanes but will also present to the end user a product in the simulator that can literally be used in an audio-visual checkout program for either airplane as an introductory tool for pilots training to fly either one.

As an ex-instructor and check pilot flying warbirds myself, I wouldn't hesitate to use anything thus far produced with Accusim in a check out program for the aircraft represented..........trust me...........Accusim changes everything!
Dudley Henriques

I Can't tell you how much I crave any news/updates on this project!!
Please! Anything!

_________________

Agreed Phantom i fell like im being deprived of all life's important things
Awww The sound of a turbine for a change..... oh please update us Pretty please

_________________

I agree with, I keep coming back looking for updates on this project (the new project that A2A announced while great isn't up my ally).

_________________

I have absolutely no doubt, that when released, A2A's Phabulous Phantom(s) will be a Phantanstic addition to my hanger.

I do have a craving for an update though...Don

_________________
Gimme a "J", Gimme an "S", Gimme a Naval Aviation Phabulous Phantom!

Well it's been quite a while since I first found out that A2A was developing the Phantom. I really can't wait for it. The F-4 Phantom II is my favorite military jet aircraft OF ALL TIME! Is there any possible release date or expected amount of time left before the product goes on the market?