Quick question....How do you loop this thing?

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RacingBoss
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Quick question....How do you loop this thing?

Post by RacingBoss »

I cannot manage to get this plane to do a loop. I have the Military version. Whenever I go to do a loop, I either loose the air speed I need or it torque stalls on me from pulling back too hard. I've tried starting a loop going as fast as 300MPH and as slow as 175MPH. I've even tried reducing the torque effect in the FSX realism settings. Still cannot get this plane to do a loop. Is it really this hard(impossible) in real life?

EDIT: OK, I managed to get it by going in a dive and reaching 400+. Is it really like this in real life?

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Tug002
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Re: Quick question....How do you loop this thing?

Post by Tug002 »

I find that the less fuel you have the better it handles. Doing any acrobatics I find requires fairly high speed and a light touch on the stick. I usually only have 50% fuel in the wings and none in the aux tank. It take quite a bit of practice but it is worth the time.

Keep smiling
Tug :)

AviationAtWar
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Re: Quick question....How do you loop this thing?

Post by AviationAtWar »

I seem to recall a writeup from Dudley regarding a real world aerobatic routine in the Mustang, starting with 35 gallons in the left tank and none in the right tank.

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Ron Attwood
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Re: Quick question....How do you loop this thing?

Post by Ron Attwood »

I'm not sure I can explain how I do a loop in the Mustang...My first attempts were to pull too hard, too fast. Resulting in an undignified scrabble to regain a semblance of control. :oops:
I discovered that if I was a lot more gentle and consistent in the pull back the plane kept flying. This means a bigger loop than I had in mind, but I do come out the other side!
Make of that what you will. :D
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wrkempson
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Re: Quick question....How do you loop this thing?

Post by wrkempson »

Just to add to what has been said already about empty fuselage tank and a gentle pull.

Attain level flight at 300 mph (400 is not necessary), 55" and 2600 RPM. Then gently pull back. My loops a moment ago created 4G's, but experience will tell you how "fast" the horizon should drop. At this point the main thing is to keep the wings level with the horizon. When airspeed hits 200 mph I cut the throttle. I am usually about a third of the way into the loop. Cutting the throttle keeps torque from causing control problems. Normally I "coast" through the top of the loop, regain the horizon, maintain level wings and let gravity add airspeed. When speed is again at 200 mph I add throttle gradually to about 45" or so. Most of the time I come out close to my original altitude and perhaps a bit slower than my entry speed.

Throttle management is something I started doing to avoid the problems you have had with torque at the top. I figured it was akin to managing the power during a landing when the airspeed was low.

I'm not a RWP so I can't vouch for actual practice. The above results in a fairly even loop for me.

I append the usual disclaimers regarding openness to correction and reproof.

Wayne

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Fragmentum
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Re: Quick question....How do you loop this thing?

Post by Fragmentum »

AviationAtWar wrote:I seem to recall a writeup from Dudley regarding a real world aerobatic routine in the Mustang, starting with 35 gallons in the left tank and none in the right tank.
Here's what I know from Dudley: Let’s set up out fuel by taking out the fuselage tank completely empty then loading 50 gals in the left main and 30gals in the right main. We’ll be flying a short display using the left main only and the right side fuel is just in there for some lateral balance. Not critical but since we have the luxury of the load manager......why not optimize the aircraft.
Let’s go with modern available fuel and set up for 100 octane. Oil should be the normal grade. NOTE here that using 100 octane we’ll be restricted to 55 inches of manifold pressure on takeoff to prevent detonation.
I liked a 0 altimeter set whenever possible as opposed to the local setting making it a lot easier to pick up my high side limit going through the top of a maneuver.
You should have at least 270kts indicated as you begin the pull back on your stick. The power should be at 46 inches and 2700RPM.
Plan on a 3 to 4g vertical upline.
Monitor your g carefully as you progress upward planning to arrive at a minimum of 3000ft AGL inverted with an airspeed of around 110kts. THAT is your high gate. You want to fly through that gate inverted at 3000ft/110kts. ANYTHING other than these numbers mean trouble on the back side. In real life, blowing off a high energy gate can kill you.
What all this means is that you need to achieve a certain set of numbers at the top to insure you will have the room you need to recover at the bottom. These numbers are unique to your specific aircraft. You MUST know them. You MUST use them!
To arrive at the proper altitude inverted at the top you have control of 3 things;
your entry airspeed, your entry altitude AGL, and the g you fly going up the line. You MUST control these 3 things playing one off the other to put the airplane inverted where it has to be at the top of the maneuver.
Reaching your pull point pull into the vertical plane gently but with purpose. Looking with the pan in the VC or with your TrackIR eyeball the left wingtip for reference.
Alternate between the left wingtip and the panel and do whatever is necessary to put the airplane at your high gate target of 3000 AGL and 110 knots.
You might have to ease off some of the pull or pull it in a bit harder depending on how accurate the maneuver line that you are producing with what you have. Be prepared to adjust as needed as the maneuver progresses. I found around 3.5 to 4.0+g about right for the Mustang.
Let’s assume you got everything right and are now just shy of going inverted through the gate on the top. Note that in the P51, you might have to pull the airplane down inverted through the top gate if slightly fast, as the airplane will climb inverted on you if you don’t. This is slightly contrary to normal procedure for loops and other maneuvers going through the top inverted in lighter aerobatic airplanes, as normally you would relax the g on top and let the airplane
float through the apex. The 51 is a powerful
airplane and if not handled just right through the float at the top it can actually climb on its back, so FLY IT THROUGH ! Now, on the top inverted, you have 110Kts and 3000 feet.
You should be pulling a bit of g on through the inverted but not much. Fly it through !!!
You can be a bit off with your recovery in the sim as I gave you a bit of room to work with. Just don’t pull too hard or not hard enough on the recovery. It might look as though you don’t have enough room to make it, but don’t rush the recovery by applying too much g. Remember accelerated stall!!!! With a 3000 foot AGL high gate you should have more than enough wiggle room down the back side. If you are right on, play off the g and let it on down lower using the airspeed to add to your energy. If you crash, go do it again and make the necessary adjustments to correct what you did wrong while you give a thought or two to those of us who HAD to get it right EVERY TIME the FIRST TIME !
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wrkempson
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Re: Quick question....How do you loop this thing?

Post by wrkempson »

Just tried a few loops using the information from Fragmentum. Actually, I am very pleased with the results. I did not cut the throttle (as was my custom, no more however). I found the key was to deny the temptation to pull back on the stick on the down side (did once and spun out). Anyway, it's fun to learn something so as to do things right.

Thanks to Fragmentum and Dudley.

Wayne

RacingBoss
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Re: Quick question....How do you loop this thing?

Post by RacingBoss »

Thanks for the replies! My main tank was FULL of fuel. I emptied that out and most of the right and just had half in the left. Now I can do loops at 250MPH! The thing handles so much better now.

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