Mustang Flying Tips (from Dudley Henriques)

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Scott - A2A
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Mustang Flying Tips (from Dudley Henriques)

Post by Scott - A2A »

Here are some tips how Mustang pilot, Dudley Henriques, flies and operates the actual aircraft. Dudley is on our beta test team, and as discussions continue on the public forums, we'll use this thread to organize them in one place.

The techniques below apply the same to your Accu-Sim Mustang:

How I start a real mustang

Takeoffs

Shortfield landings
A2A Simulations Inc.

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JoeS475
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Re: Mustang Flying Tips (from Dudley Henriques)

Post by JoeS475 »

Scott, I just wanted to add Dudley's awesome tutorial for takeoffs to this topic.

http://a2asimulations.com/forum/viewtop ... 94&t=31684

Joe

EDIT: Since the takeoff tutorial is now on the top post, you guys may as well delete this one (I can't see how to do it myself!)...
Joe

freded
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Re: Mustang Flying Tips (from Dudley Henriques)

Post by freded »

Hello Dudley,

Thanks for your tutorial on Mustang Takeoffs. Very nicely written but, try as I may, I cannot seem to master the technique. :(

Even if I can keep the thing on the runway with rudder, as soon as it leaves the ground it goes into an uncontrollable roll which no amount of aileron will correct.

There is now a large heap of burning Mustangs beside my runway! :lol:

Is there some way of preventing this rolling?

Should the throttle be advanced very slowly? And to what MP?

Should I put in right aileron sooner?

What is the optimum speed for rotation?

I'd be very grateful if you (or any other P-51 pilots!) could help me with this. I'd hate to give up on this aircraft because it's so beautifully simulated. :(
Regards,

Mark

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DHenriques_
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Re: Mustang Flying Tips (from Dudley Henriques)

Post by DHenriques_ »

freded wrote:Hello Dudley,

Thanks for your tutorial on Mustang Takeoffs. Very nicely written but, try as I may, I cannot seem to master the technique. :(

Even if I can keep the thing on the runway with rudder, as soon as it leaves the ground it goes into an uncontrollable roll which no amount of aileron will correct.

There is now a large heap of burning Mustangs beside my runway! :lol:

Is there some way of preventing this rolling?

Should the throttle be advanced very slowly? And to what MP?

Should I put in right aileron sooner?

What is the optimum speed for rotation?

I'd be very grateful if you (or any other P-51 pilots!) could help me with this. I'd hate to give up on this aircraft because it's so beautifully simulated. :(
Hi, and welcome to the forums;

Assuming everything is working properly in FSX and with your controllers what you are describing might actually be a classic reaction to all the fine work done by our flight modeling team as relates to torque roll. I'm again assuming your roll is to the left???
What might cause this is lifting off too soon at below the optimum speed necessary for your gross weight. Adding to that any aggressive pitch input as you rotate will amplify the tendency for a torque roll.
The bottom line on takeoffs as to liftoff speed is that in the Mustang, you should normally just accelerate the airplane letting it find it's rotation speed. It will do this as the lift on the wings increases and meets the opposing gross weight of the aircraft. At that point the aircraft will rotate on its own.
Considering this, one can instantly realize that density altitude notwithstanding, the aircraft will require more lift the heavier it is. At the gross weight of our Mustang clean, this should happen around 100 its. I usually like a little bit more than that and I "help" the rotation at around 110kts clean.
Just feed the power in slowly, keep it straight and don't let it rotate too early. Use GENTLE pitch input as you rotate.
Yes, use whatever right aileron the airplane tells you it wants to keep that right wing down. This will come into the equation as you gain speed on the takeoff.
Try these things and see if they help.
Dudley Henriques

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JoeS475
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Re: Mustang Flying Tips (from Dudley Henriques)

Post by JoeS475 »

Uncontrollable roll sounds to me like one of three things:

1) Is your joystick calibrated correctly? I'm assuming yes if you fly other planes with no problem.

2) Did you forget to unlock your controls? (My guess)

3) Is your auto pilot on? I've pressed Z by mistake in the past and had obvious control issues as a result.

I hope this is helpful.

Also, if this doesnt help, you may want to start a new topic in the P-51 Troubleshooting forum and ask there. I think that would enable more people to see your question quicker.

Good luck,

Joe
Joe

freded
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Re: Mustang Flying Tips (from Dudley Henriques)

Post by freded »

Thanks for your replies, Dudley & Joe.

Dudley: I'll try your suggestions next time. From what you say, I think my problem has been trying to rotate too early and probably ham-fisted use of the controls.

Joe:-
1) I'll check the control settings to make sure.
2) I did once forget the control lock (hadn't even realised a) it was there and b) that it was locked!) but never since... :)
3) No the A/P hasn't been 'ON'.

So, as I say above, it's probably my impatience to get airborne that's at the root of the problem. I'll try and "Keep Calm & Carry On". :lol:

I'll have a look at the P-51 Troubleshooting forum.
Regards,

Mark

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Re: Mustang Flying Tips (from Dudley Henriques)

Post by B-17 Flier »

Well, I have copied and pasted all those pages into a document but still nowhere do I see what I asked for. V speeds.

Can someone please just come right out and tell me what the speeds should be on landing with the flap settings? Is this like some double-secret knowledge or do I have to try to find a real-world manual? Which I am not going to do.

I don't ask for much, what is landing stall speed at all the flap settings? Why didn't they include this in the manual, it really grinds my gears that I paid a TON of money for this and I can't get this bloody information.

Very unsatisfied customer.

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Alan_A
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Re: Mustang Flying Tips (from Dudley Henriques)

Post by Alan_A »

One of the (many) challenging things about the Mustang is that it isn't really flown according to a flap schedule and it isn't best landed from a normal pattern. There's a wide range of discretion for flap settings - you can drop 10 degrees at 400 mph and the max for full flap extension is 165 mph.

The problem with a long "airliner" approach or even a standard pattern is that you wind up low on short final, at the wrong end of the power curve and with minimal visibility over the nose.

Here's a good thread about how to land from an overhead break, which is what works best for me.

Just to extend that discussion a bit - I go to 20 degrees flaps on downwind, stay at 1000 AGL through most of the long curving turn on final, dropping the rest of the flaps in increments 'til I'm at full flaps and 120 mph (100 knots), still high over the threshold with the runway in sight, then back off power SLOWLY and bring the nose up SLOWLY to land tail low. Keep her firmly under control on rollout.

If Dudley disagrees with any of this, do what he says, not what I say.

Understand your frustration about tracking down information but she's really a different animal and was designed to allow for many different flying techniques (wartime and all that). The nice thing about Accu-Sim aircraft, as you already know from the GA side, is that if you do ever track down a real-world manual (pretty accessible for the P-51 since they're public domain), you can apply them directly to the sim aircraft and get real-world results.

Hope this helps at least somewhat.
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Re: Mustang Flying Tips (from Dudley Henriques)

Post by CodyValkyrie »

A short and simple rule for for new P-51 pilots I like to express is that rather than focusing on specific rules, consider what your aircraft is doing, telling you, and think way ahead of the nose. The original manuals may leave a lot to be desired for modern GA pilots, and they didn't get too much better over the years. This is partially because of the wide range of setups you can find the P-51 in, making hard numbers a crapshoot. Making full use of the high flap deployment speeds as necessary, use curved approaches to keep the runway in sight, and take advantage of the wonderful view from the cockpit. The wing likes speed, and that becomes extremely apparent during the approach phase, and many have trouble slowing her down.

Dudley is the resident expert on the P-51, and he's written many articles on the subject. There's also some great articles online. Take advantage of the manual as a sort of "guide," but be sure to know what it's telling you. You may come up with other questions, trying to understand the "why" of those procedures.

The P-51 is extremely rewarding once you've mastered her, but like a wild mustang, she can have a bit of bite if you treat her poorly. I like to imagine that the P-51 is a fusion between pilot and plane, both working together in harmony in order to fly well. Learn your ride inside and out, and learn to listen to what she's saying. Pilots of these great warbirds often referred to their planes as "her," or "she," as these planes have their own character.

This is Colonol Donald Blakeslee, a P-51 commander who flew more combat missions against the Luftwaffe than any other American:

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He pushed hard to replace his men's P-47s with the P-51, but the 8th Air Force Command required they be operational with the plane in 24 hours. He famously told his pilots to, "learn how to fly them on the way to the target." They don't make pilots the way they used to!
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Re: Mustang Flying Tips (from Dudley Henriques)

Post by B-17 Flier »

All I can saw is wow. Just wow.

Life was probably a lot better back then.

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Paughco
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Re: Mustang Flying Tips (from Dudley Henriques)

Post by Paughco »

Dudley: Thank you for those bits of wisdom on taking off and landing in the P-51.

That whole thing about taking off reminds me of a couple days ago on my BMW K1300S. It was cold, but the roads had "thawed." I was riding south on Hwy 203 towards Carnation, WA, and came upon an area where trucks had been coming onto the road. Got past the flaggers and decided to let some of the ponies out. The rear end got loose, but only a bit, because the ASC (anti-squiggle control) kicked in, and prevented the bike from swapping ends. The bike bucked a bit, but stayed upright, and the little yellow light came on, and I got off the throttle. The rest of the ride was in "tip-toe" mode.

Hey, the Mustang doesn't have ASC. OK, I can dig that. So far I've got the J-3 for pre-flights into crazy places, the Comanche for flying in first class comfort, and the P-40 for getting there soonest. Next A2A aircraft would probably be the P-51D Civ. Perfect for that $10,000 hamburger.

Seeya
ATB
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francesco.doenz
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Re: Mustang Flying Tips (from Dudley Henriques)

Post by francesco.doenz »

Could someone summarize the difference in left turning tendencies of the P-47 compared to the Mustang? In other words, can one take the advices about the Mustang take-off and apply them to the P-47? Or are there subtle differences?
Many thanks in advance for your inputs!
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