Landing Attitude?

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cessna lover

Landing Attitude?

Post by cessna lover »

does any one know the landing attitude needed for this? the attitude indicator does not have any pitch information. and every time I try to land this it is almost carrier style. the Connie is the same way. the attitude only shows bank and not pitch information. I think we need a new attitude indicator here for pitch and bank. the B-17 is the same way. hard to get good landings with them for this reason :oops:

alan CXA651
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Re: Landing Attitude?

Post by alan CXA651 »

Hi.
The old aircraft att indicators had very basic info , it is not that hard to get good landings in the B17/L049/B377 , just keep practicing , you will get there in the end .
regards alan. 8)
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cessna lover

Re: Landing Attitude?

Post by cessna lover »

:lol: I know how that is. after a few smacks from the crew chief of the b-17 I can get a decent land with it now. lol more practice for me I suppose. I hate him smacking me. :lol:

maddz
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Re: Landing Attitude?

Post by maddz »

What's your landing technique?

I find the connie needs to be flown to the runway. I chop the throttle at about 5 feet, slight flare, touch the mains down, then fly the nose wheel down for a soft touchdown - usually followed by applause :mrgreen:

As for pitch refrence, you could use the VSI as a guid, aiming for >100ft min touchdown.

cessna lover

Re: Landing Attitude?

Post by cessna lover »

maddz wrote:What's your landing technique?

I find the connie needs to be flown to the runway. I chop the throttle at about 5 feet, slight flare, touch the mains down, then fly the nose wheel down for a soft touchdown - usually followed by applause :mrgreen:

As for pitch refrence, you could use the VSI as a guid, aiming for >100ft min touchdown.
not the same as yours I guess when I land I don't get any feed back. of course though for the Connie I have not yet visited the manual :roll: that could be why I can't land it. lol

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DHenriques_
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Re: Landing Attitude?

Post by DHenriques_ »

cessna lover wrote:
maddz wrote:What's your landing technique?

I find the connie needs to be flown to the runway. I chop the throttle at about 5 feet, slight flare, touch the mains down, then fly the nose wheel down for a soft touchdown - usually followed by applause :mrgreen:

As for pitch refrence, you could use the VSI as a guid, aiming for >100ft min touchdown.
not the same as yours I guess when I land I don't get any feed back. of course though for the Connie I have not yet visited the manual :roll: that could be why I can't land it. lol
Landing a large transport airplane is a bit different than landing a small GA type plane as I'm sure you know already.
I've only landed a stretch DC8 in the liner category so I can't speak specifically to the B17 or the Strat but it's basically the same.
It's all about simply controlling the sink rate onto the runway. As you approach ground contact you begin to shallow the sink by eye until you meet the ground. You do want the nose wheel slightly off the runway at contact but no effort should be made to "stall" the aircraft onto the ground. Mains first then fly the nose on down gently.
Dudley Henriques

cessna lover

Re: Landing Attitude?

Post by cessna lover »

:lol: no landing these large plane takes a lot more skill then a ga airplane. but I seen a video with the Connie and the guy came it at 100 feet per minute and got cheers for it. so I will have to practice and watch the vertical speed indicator next flight.

cessna lover

Re: Landing Attitude?

Post by cessna lover »

DHenriquesA2A wrote:
cessna lover wrote:
maddz wrote:What's your landing technique?

I find the connie needs to be flown to the runway. I chop the throttle at about 5 feet, slight flare, touch the mains down, then fly the nose wheel down for a soft touchdown - usually followed by applause :mrgreen:

As for pitch refrence, you could use the VSI as a guid, aiming for >100ft min touchdown.
not the same as yours I guess when I land I don't get any feed back. of course though for the Connie I have not yet visited the manual :roll: that could be why I can't land it. lol
Landing a large transport airplane is a bit different than landing a small GA type plane as I'm sure you know already.
I've only landed a stretch DC8 in the liner category so I can't speak specifically to the B17 or the Strat but it's basically the same.
It's all about simply controlling the sink rate onto the runway. As you approach ground contact you begin to shallow the sink by eye until you meet the ground. You do want the nose wheel slightly off the runway at contact but no effort should be made to "stall" the aircraft onto the ground. Mains first then fly the nose on down gently.
Dudley Henriques
I got to thinking about what you said here. and you get more information in the GA airplanes as far as pitch information then you do with the Stratocruiser or the B-17 same for the Connie. lol how they flew these with such little information is incredible.

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CAPFlyer
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Re: Landing Attitude?

Post by CAPFlyer »

Considering I never land a Cessna while looking at anything other than what's outside the window, I think the big birds are just as easy to land as the small ones, if not easier since you have more information from the big birds about how where exactly you are in space, especially the ones with radar altimeters that tell you how far off the ground you are in addition to all the other information and feedback. It's all about how you process, prioritize, and interpret the information.

If you're having problems landing, it's not because the attitude indicator isn't giving you good information, your technique and your scan are what you need to work on so that you're using the right instruments to help you in your approach. In big airplanes, those instruments are the Vertical Speed Indicator (VSI), Airspeed Indicator (ASI), and the Directional Gyro and Course Deviation Indicator (CDI) or Horizontal Situation Indicator (HSI) if you're flying an instrument approach. If you fly the VSI and ASI to maintain the proper glidepath, you'll find the plane ends up in the right pitch configuration on its own. Also remember that the adage from light planes about pitch for speed and power for descent rate is just as applicable here if not more-so. If you manage your approach by power and hold your pitch (i.e. hold the speed and change the descent rate to hold the glidepath) you'll end up over the end of the runway at the same attitude every time and then it's just a matter of easing off the power and slightly pulling back on the joystick/yoke, watching for a 3-4 degree drop in the horizon. That's it, you'll fly it onto the runway every time.
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cessna lover

Re: Landing Attitude?

Post by cessna lover »

well when flying Cessna's I look at the pitch and power and know where I am and should be. but with the Connie the 377 and the B17 I need to practice I guess. :D

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DHenriques_
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Re: Landing Attitude?

Post by DHenriques_ »

cessna lover wrote:well when flying Cessna's I look at the pitch and power and know where I am and should be. but with the Connie the 377 and the B17 I need to practice I guess. :D
The main difference between landing a GA light and a Transport is in how the final phase over the fence is handled. More flare and an at or very near stall at touchdown for the GA type and a lessening of the sink rate for the Transport type. Naturally there are additional and subtle additions to these two factors, wind correction etc, but there is one glaring similarity and that is that a category approach considered, you should NOT be referencing any instruments during that final over the fence phase of your landing. THAT phase is "eyeballs, hands and feet, and peripheral judgment only". There is a crossover point where you leave the panel and go to ground reference for the landing and that crossover point is as the aircraft crosses over the end of the runway.
Dudley Henriques

cessna lover

Re: Landing Attitude?

Post by cessna lover »

well I flew my B-17 last night and watched the speed and vertical speed and got a compliment from the crew on that one :D it was an amazing landing. but with the 377 and the Connie they like to float I have noticed more practice needed in those two. but with the P-47 I am as blind as a bat on landing. lol

alan CXA651
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Re: Landing Attitude?

Post by alan CXA651 »

Hi.
Well done on getting a good landing , but it sounds like you are still paying to much attention on those instruments , you need to be useing your mk1 eyeball out of the fwd window as you are crossing the threashold .
You should try handling a B17 that is badly shot up like me and a fellow 91st bombardment group member had to do on saturday , he came in on two engs , low fuel , and airframe damage , that was shaking so bad he could hardly read the gauges , my aircraft took two direct hits on my no2 engine , a direct hit on the airframe , causeing bad vibrations and i had to do an emergency dive from 23000ft to 10000ft , when i noticed the oxy almost at zero , due flak damage , and on landing my flaps failed to come down , and being on 3 engs i left the flaps till short finals , so had no time to crank them down , and had to do a flapless landing .
This is why you need to feel and sense the aircraft , and be able to bring her saftly in posibly with out some instruments , as these could get damaged , or miss reading , due pitot damage .
regards alan. 8)
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DHenriques_
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Re: Landing Attitude?

Post by DHenriques_ »

cessna lover wrote:well I flew my B-17 last night and watched the speed and vertical speed and got a compliment from the crew on that one :D it was an amazing landing. but with the 377 and the Connie they like to float I have noticed more practice needed in those two. but with the P-47 I am as blind as a bat on landing. lol
Using ANY instrument references over and past the numbers is a HUGE NO NO! I can't stress this enough to you.
As for the P47, you are not blind on landing but you are visually restricted requiring you to switch your visual cues to the two peripheral views available to each side of the runway. This switching of visual cues is 101 to flying a tailwheel propeller driven aircraft, in the sim AND in the real airplanes.
Dudley Henriques

cessna lover

Re: Landing Attitude?

Post by cessna lover »

alan CXA651 wrote:Hi.
Well done on getting a good landing , but it sounds like you are still paying to much attention on those instruments , you need to be useing your mk1 eyeball out of the fwd window as you are crossing the threashold .
You should try handling a B17 that is badly shot up like me and a fellow 91st bombardment group member had to do on saturday , he came in on two engs , low fuel , and airframe damage , that was shaking so bad he could hardly read the gauges , my aircraft took two direct hits on my no2 engine , a direct hit on the airframe , causeing bad vibrations and i had to do an emergency dive from 23000ft to 10000ft , when i noticed the oxy almost at zero , due flak damage , and on landing my flaps failed to come down , and being on 3 engs i left the flaps till short finals , so had no time to crank them down , and had to do a flapless landing .
This is why you need to feel and sense the aircraft , and be able to bring her saftly in posibly with out some instruments , as these could get damaged , or miss reading , due pitot damage .
regards alan. 8)
what was you doing that you got shot to bits? was it a combat sim of some sort?

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