Losing torque pressure on Engines 1&2 on Climb
Re: Losing torque pressure on Engines 1&2 on Climb
Chrjs, those numbers in my post above match what I see in your screenshot, and it looks like you've got maybe 78-79 pounds of torque, If you are flying this with no assistance from the FE from takeoff forward, are you switching the turbo control switches from "takeoff" to "climb and cruise"?
Re: Losing torque pressure on Engines 1&2 on Climb
hi, first thanks for your answers.
I did some more testing. Somewhat "good" and still bad news. It seems as I am doing tnothing wrong. Flying with the FE is the same. During climb torwue is decreasing constantly, first slowly (with the FE setting everything around 140-150 at Fl100), then above Fl100 rapidly to under 100. I tried lowering the RPM to 2350 and the Manifold to 46''. I still can't get higher than maybe 110''. Further climb is impossible. I then tried some different settings, first full turbo (switches of course to climb/cruise), then as much throttle as possible. No significant difference as you can see. I really dont know what else I can do. Im going to uninstall the plane and reinstall and then try again....
I did some more testing. Somewhat "good" and still bad news. It seems as I am doing tnothing wrong. Flying with the FE is the same. During climb torwue is decreasing constantly, first slowly (with the FE setting everything around 140-150 at Fl100), then above Fl100 rapidly to under 100. I tried lowering the RPM to 2350 and the Manifold to 46''. I still can't get higher than maybe 110''. Further climb is impossible. I then tried some different settings, first full turbo (switches of course to climb/cruise), then as much throttle as possible. No significant difference as you can see. I really dont know what else I can do. Im going to uninstall the plane and reinstall and then try again....
Re: Losing torque pressure on Engines 1&2 on Climb
Just to make sure: For your reinstall the order should be:
1. wos_b377.zip
2. cots.zip
3. A2A_Update_05_09_16.zip
(do not install wos_b377_accusim_sp1.zip or anything else)
1. wos_b377.zip
2. cots.zip
3. A2A_Update_05_09_16.zip
(do not install wos_b377_accusim_sp1.zip or anything else)
- Piper_EEWL
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Re: Losing torque pressure on Engines 1&2 on Climb
Also for your reinstall. Make sure to delete the update log.
Go to your FSX root folder --> A2A --> B377 --> Update --> client.wyc
Make sure to delete the client.wyc file before reinstalling. Otherwise the update won't install.
Also before going through all the trouble did you try to delete your dat file?
Go to your FSX root folder --> A2A --> B377 --> Update --> client.wyc
Make sure to delete the client.wyc file before reinstalling. Otherwise the update won't install.
Also before going through all the trouble did you try to delete your dat file?
B377&COTS, J3 Cub, B-17G, Spitfire, P-40, P-51D, C172, C182, Pa28, Pa24, T-6 Texan, L-049&COTS, Bonanza V35B
Re: Losing torque pressure on Engines 1&2 on Climb
And just to add: you wrote that the FE set a torque. That is not how he ever behaves with my plane - it is always me who sets torque. With the throttle, I move it until I get the desired torque value, the AI FE just comes up with the turbos accordingly.
And once the torque has stabilized on the desired value, I go into "MP Hold", so the FE holds my selected torque by increasing the turbos while climbing. But as he will not touch the throttle, it is still my job to keep an eye on turbo utilization and temp, and advance the throttle a bit from time to time. That will increases MP and Torque momentarily, allowing the FE to pull back the turbos a bit until all settles back at my desired torque.
And once the torque has stabilized on the desired value, I go into "MP Hold", so the FE holds my selected torque by increasing the turbos while climbing. But as he will not touch the throttle, it is still my job to keep an eye on turbo utilization and temp, and advance the throttle a bit from time to time. That will increases MP and Torque momentarily, allowing the FE to pull back the turbos a bit until all settles back at my desired torque.
Re: Losing torque pressure on Engines 1&2 on Climb
Looks like your fuel consumption isn't right either ! This is weird.
Maintenance, Repair and Overhaul
Re: Losing torque pressure on Engines 1&2 on Climb
Ok. Even a clean reinstall (with all your hints followed) didn't change it. Above Fl100 my torque decreases so i cant climb any higher than Fl120. No matter if I do the work or the FE. Seems something doesn't work here. For me this plane is not P3D compatible. I think I have to give up and store it in the hangar... Very sad. Seems to be a very nice airplane but I just haven't the time to do a lenghty and especially very frustrating trial and error....
Thanks for your help.
Thanks for your help.
Re: Losing torque pressure on Engines 1&2 on Climb
Just to make absolutely sure: even if you manually advance BOTH throttle AND turbos to full at the same time (prop 2350 rpm), you do not see any higher torque values at ~FL110 than shown in your pictures?
- Piper_EEWL
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Re: Losing torque pressure on Engines 1&2 on Climb
Yes that fuel flow looks wrong. What is your mixture set to?
B377&COTS, J3 Cub, B-17G, Spitfire, P-40, P-51D, C172, C182, Pa28, Pa24, T-6 Texan, L-049&COTS, Bonanza V35B
Re: Losing torque pressure on Engines 1&2 on Climb
Yes. Of course I can go in the reds with the manifold (with the throttles and/or turbo) but torque remains too low (maybe around 110-120).Welsch wrote:Just to make absolutely sure: even if you manually advance BOTH throttle AND turbos to full at the same time (prop 2350 rpm), you do not see any higher torque values at ~FL110 than shown in your pictures?
- Piper_EEWL
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Re: Losing torque pressure on Engines 1&2 on Climb
Is your mixture at auto rich?
B377&COTS, J3 Cub, B-17G, Spitfire, P-40, P-51D, C172, C182, Pa28, Pa24, T-6 Texan, L-049&COTS, Bonanza V35B
Re: Losing torque pressure on Engines 1&2 on Climb
Yes. Auto-rich and locked.Piper_EEWL wrote:Is your mixture at auto rich?
Re: Losing torque pressure on Engines 1&2 on Climb
P3D is not the problem however the installation may be.
I don't know your experience level with the C377 but I wrote this out for anyone else seeking to learn this aircraft.
I use FSX and am starting to add to P3D. Full passengers and standard load of fuel in the wing tanks gives over 130,000 lbs.
My test in P3Dv3.2. Passing through 11,000ft and still pulling hard. Not using FE. I don't have a registered version of FSUIPC so its just standard controls for me.
Things I am doing/watching in order of importance.
1. Autopilot is on and pitching for about 180 knots to ensure engine cooling. Much slower and you start fighting a loosing battle with CHT. Vertical speed is a secondary consideration and only a direct result of what I can extract from the engines. Vertical speed will vary based on your aircraft weight. Lighter loads are easier when learning as the margins for operation are much larger. Heavy loads demand more exacting settings.
2. Turbos must always be above 2" to provide adequate cabin pressure. They have a direct result on MP and can result in over torque so watch for that when adjusting turbos. Add turbo and reduce throttle is the way to keep torque the same.
3. Torque is the next thing to watch. In climb I am aiming for 195psi and which is a combination of MP and prop RPM. Set an MP and then bring the RPM back to increase torque. More MP equals increase in CHT so limit your MP by watching CHT. Aim for 46 MP but CHT always rules what can be achieved. Older engines have to be looked after more than fresh ones. The book numbers are targets but not must haves.
4. Keep adjusting MP as you climb as it will always drop with higher altitudes and lower density of air.
5. Inboard engines don't get as much cooling so they will run hotter. I run 4 levers for the throttles so I push the outer engines slightly harder. Always balancing the CHT to maximise combined thrust.
6. Intercoolers will need to be added when using the turbos to manage carb air temp. Only use as much as you need to avoid adding drag with the cooling flaps. Cowl flaps still at 3 until cruise, unless a light load is used and a higher climb speed can be obtained.
5. Above 10,000ft you want to switch on one of the inboard fuel pumps.
6. I should have switched to ram air once in the air but I forgot. This will give some extra power for the same CHT.
There is probably more that could be added/commented on but this will do for the basics.
I don't know your experience level with the C377 but I wrote this out for anyone else seeking to learn this aircraft.
I use FSX and am starting to add to P3D. Full passengers and standard load of fuel in the wing tanks gives over 130,000 lbs.
My test in P3Dv3.2. Passing through 11,000ft and still pulling hard. Not using FE. I don't have a registered version of FSUIPC so its just standard controls for me.
Things I am doing/watching in order of importance.
1. Autopilot is on and pitching for about 180 knots to ensure engine cooling. Much slower and you start fighting a loosing battle with CHT. Vertical speed is a secondary consideration and only a direct result of what I can extract from the engines. Vertical speed will vary based on your aircraft weight. Lighter loads are easier when learning as the margins for operation are much larger. Heavy loads demand more exacting settings.
2. Turbos must always be above 2" to provide adequate cabin pressure. They have a direct result on MP and can result in over torque so watch for that when adjusting turbos. Add turbo and reduce throttle is the way to keep torque the same.
3. Torque is the next thing to watch. In climb I am aiming for 195psi and which is a combination of MP and prop RPM. Set an MP and then bring the RPM back to increase torque. More MP equals increase in CHT so limit your MP by watching CHT. Aim for 46 MP but CHT always rules what can be achieved. Older engines have to be looked after more than fresh ones. The book numbers are targets but not must haves.
4. Keep adjusting MP as you climb as it will always drop with higher altitudes and lower density of air.
5. Inboard engines don't get as much cooling so they will run hotter. I run 4 levers for the throttles so I push the outer engines slightly harder. Always balancing the CHT to maximise combined thrust.
6. Intercoolers will need to be added when using the turbos to manage carb air temp. Only use as much as you need to avoid adding drag with the cooling flaps. Cowl flaps still at 3 until cruise, unless a light load is used and a higher climb speed can be obtained.
5. Above 10,000ft you want to switch on one of the inboard fuel pumps.
6. I should have switched to ram air once in the air but I forgot. This will give some extra power for the same CHT.
There is probably more that could be added/commented on but this will do for the basics.
Cheers
Trev
Trev
Re: Losing torque pressure on Engines 1&2 on Climb
Well I don't think it's an error of setting. Unless the plane uses a piper cub prop, there is no way the engine can create that little torque with 45" and 23k RPM. The maths just don't line up. looking at the fuel press, there is obviously something else going on
Maintenance, Repair and Overhaul
Re: Losing torque pressure on Engines 1&2 on Climb
That's exactly what I think. There must be something with my setup.Aymi wrote:Well I don't think it's an error of setting. Unless the plane uses a piper cub prop, there is no way the engine can create that little torque with 45" and 23k RPM. The maths just don't line up. looking at the fuel press, there is obviously something else going on
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