No real sound from Spit wheels on runway....?

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Lewis - A2A
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Re: No real sound from Spit wheels on runway....?

Post by Lewis - A2A »

Practice makes perfect and I rather enjoy the videos! :mrgreen:
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BILL1949
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Re: No real sound from Spit wheels on runway....?

Post by BILL1949 »

Many thanks for that Lewis. I'll certainly continue to practice (and can only strive for perfection). When you're 'addicted' to something, then to 'continue to practice' is absolutely no hardship :D.
I guess that ~19:00-~01:00 every evening (except rare occasions), between War Thunder & SFX, qualifies me as 'addicted'...(?) :roll:

It's not my fault. I blame:
- My son - for introducing me to WT - specifically 'Cockpit view' - once I got that, that was it!!!
- FSX for enabling flight just about anywhere that I'd want to fly.
- ORBX for much of the great scenery that I can fly over.
- UK2000 & Justflight for their beautifully accurate aerodromes
- A2A for creating such amazing Accu-sim aircraft 8) 8) 8)
- All of you guys who have helped and encouraged me so much :) :) :)
- My wife, for not moaning at me... (Note to self - leave photo and voice recording of me, just as a reminder for her :roll: )
- Oh, and me I suppose - for being totally incapable of resisting the temptations from all of the above :| :) :D :lol: .
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Piper_EEWL
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Re: No real sound from Spit wheels on runway....?

Post by Piper_EEWL »

Not boring at all Bill! As long as I have something to nag about I'm happy :wink: (I'm just kidding of course! Great videos!).

You only crashed 5 times in total?? Are you sure you don't have any other flight education? That's not bad at all!

Oh and don't fight the addiction. I've had FSX for a long time and when A2A introduced the C182T I fought I should give it a try. That was in November 2014. As of now I own 8 Accusim aircraft and I check the forum all the time for hints of new projects! :D

It's cool that you fly together with your son online! That's got to be a lot of fun. Maybe you can get him into FSX as well and open a Spitfire display team :lol:

Anyways. Have fun flying and enjoy the sim as we all do!

Sebastian

(Oh and great wife if you get that much FSX time :wink: :mrgreen: )
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Re: No real sound from Spit wheels on runway....?

Post by Killratio »

No flight sim addiction here...none at all..and no time difference between Australia and A2A working hours....none, nada..and I can give up the Spitfire any time...the voices tell me I'm fine....
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BILL1949
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Re: No real sound from Spit wheels on runway....?

Post by BILL1949 »

Ha-ha - yes, a great wife (tho', as I'm now around all day since that 'special age' enabled 'Gentleman of leisure' status, she's probably glad I'm out of the way for a few hours).

Those 5 crashes referred to were only those at landing. The figure probably trebles if I include in-flight crashes (probably due to reckless flying, or even due to distraction from looking at the instrument panel & trying to click switches while my head-tracking slightly moves the switch away from my pointed finger.... :evil: ).

Now that I have the Spits, not sure if I'll end up getting more Accu-sim aircraft. Even tho' I'm sure they're brill, I'm sooooo happy to fly the Spit - & 'if it ain't busted.....'.
We'll see...

Squadding with my son also enables an easy on-line family catch-up. His wife delivered 2 (that's TWO) sons a few months back, hence his flying time is now ...er... ....more limited. (Due to the logistics of dealing with 2 at the same time, 2 x 1 doesn't really = 2 - more like 2.5 - 3...). Actually, the way time seems to zoom by, my usual phrase is "they might want a bottle now, but next week they'll want the car keys!!". Hmmm - so, at that rate, maybe a flight of 4 in a couple of weeks time..... :D

Darryl - you get the voices too???? What a relief :D :D
(I'll give up the Spit ONLY if the voices tell me to :lol: .)

When I'm in a position to make that vid - I'll be back.

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BILL1949
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Re: No real sound from Spit wheels on runway....?

Post by BILL1949 »

Well chaps, I wasn’t doing too well in WT tonight (only a few air-kills) & was very glad to get to my A2A Spit.

I really (really) didn’t expect to upload so soon, but my very first attempt since my last forum post (my only attempt 2nite) seemed to go better than previous, and better than I’d expected. Damn glad I had Fraps running ‘just in case’.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EQhITnR ... e=youtu.be
(Includes the FSX analysis – sorry, not familiar with that, so rather clumsy presentation.)

In short (& ignoring that fact that the sound seems rather odd….):
- Only done from memory - I didn't swot-up before winding-up.
- No trimming or radiator management attempted.
- On run, about 278mph at start of runway (from FSX analysis) – tho’ the gauge on the Spit registers ~320, dropping to ~300 ….).
- Lowest altitude during the ‘run’ – about 30ft – Runway alt is ~133ft.
- Alt on downwind leg - between about 900ft - 1300ft.
- Gear down @~ 2:13
- ‘Over the fence’ – difficult to judge, but probably still too fast at about 95mph. (Bit ‘hairy’ just before touchdown…?)

My own main –ve obs:
- I didn't set runway alt before take-off, as I believe I should have.
- Didn't open canopy for landing.
- Didn't put landing light on.
- Didn't set prop pitch to fine before landing (how would this have affected my speed over threshold? Is this why I'm seeing some shaking on final turn - like driving too slowly in top gear)
- Heavy touchdown?
- I set prop to fully coarse before shutting down – think I should’ve waited…

C’mon guys – hit me – don’t hold back – I can take it (…probably… :| ).
Have to put myself in hangar now.
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Piper_EEWL
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Re: No real sound from Spit wheels on runway....?

Post by Piper_EEWL »

Not bad Bill not bad! That looks pretty good in my opinion.

Just some comments:

The final turn speed looks fine to me. You might want to make sure the turn is coordinated even more so when the speed is low. I can't see your slip indicator in the video. Just making sure!

If you put the prop full forward on downwind (maybe with extending the gear?) the engine will run at a higher rpm. First of all it'll run smoother there and secondly you don't risk fouling your spark plugs so much on final. So it would be a good idea to incorporate the prop into your flow.

Yes you're right the touchdown was a bit hard (but hey: the gear survived :wink: :mrgreen: ). Just hold the nose up when over the runway. Try to flare a bit more

Oh also you and the FSX analysis are both right. You did do 320mph on your run. You also did 278kts on your run :lol: FSX uses speeds in knots (maybe you can change a setting somewhere I don't know) the Spitfire uses mph. That's just the conversion.

Nice video once more and I love it that you did it at Duxford! Now you only need to break to the right so that the spectators can actually see your approach :wink:

Happy flying!
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Re: No real sound from Spit wheels on runway....?

Post by Killratio »

Ok Bill,

Getting better each time...

Don't be afraid to chop the throttle half way through the break turn to bring speed down.

Much better altitude control, good timing on U/C. You will find a "BUMPFH" check handy mid downwind...everything needed will flow from there.

Down to 160mph by halfway down runway then:

1. Brakes OFF
2. Undercarriage LOWER
3. Mixture Check "rich" (should already be there but check)
4. Prop pitch to FULL FINE
5. Fuel on and sufficient
6. Harness secure, hatch (canopy) Open.

I'd leave the flaps for a few more seconds...I put them down as I just straighten onto short final. (Personally, in real life or sim, I never drop flaps during a turn as it can cause asymetric deployment due to more air-pressure on the inside flap...which is universally fatal at that altitude.)

For mine you are crowding the strip a bit too...extend your downwind by not turning onto the base/final curve until the touchdown point you are aiming at is behind your left wing. Make sure you are at 800 as you start to turn base/final curve. That will give you a flatter approach and bring your fence and touchdown speeds to where they need to be. Something like 500fpm descent through the turn will put you on a good short final.



Sorry to seem to always find new faults...but what we are trying to do is fix things in bite sized pieces, so as not to overload!


Oh..one more...rev the engine and put the airscrew into coarse pitch as you pull up to parking....the DH is always left in coarse as that is where the cables are slackest... saves leaving them taught while the aircraft stands.



Darryl
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Re: No real sound from Spit wheels on runway....?

Post by BILL1949 »

Thanks chaps.

Sebastian:
- Yeah keeping the instrument panel in view for the vid, whilst also trying to see where I'm going is causing a bit of a prob. I'll try to glance down more often - the vid can then be paused as required to see instruments.
- Prop fully forward on downwind - yep.
- To reduce bump, flare more (I take it that 'flare' means 'ease nose up slightly for a gentler glide-slope'?
- Oh - Mph/Kts - of course.
- Will try break right (for some reason, that feels less instinctive...(?))


Darryl:

- I did actually 'chop' the throttle as I pulled up from the run (should be audibly evident in vid) - maybe not enough(?), or should I not reduce power at that point anyway?
- I LIKE the BUMPFH idea!!
- wondered about the flaps after I'd lowered them, but didn't want to make such a change as to raise them at that time. Would this have accounted for my slightly 'hairy' pre-touchdown attitude?
- Delay final turn curve until touchdown point is behind wing and try to be @ 800 at that point - got it. (That'll also help to bleed-off some speed.) Then as above, drop flaps when flight is level.
- '...new faults...' leads to a more comprehensive understanding - it's great.
- Prop to coarse & rev before parking - yep. (Clears plugs I guess, & slackens cables - yep)

I'm gonna try too get all this together, and I'm gonna try to delay next vid for this.

Many, many thanks guys.
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Re: No real sound from Spit wheels on runway....?

Post by Killratio »

No problems, had to watch the video without sound...

Leave chopping throttle until you have turned through about 90 - 120 degrees and are leveling off in the break onto downwind...don't want to be climbing with a high bank angle and no power.


Re prop to coarse...ONLY applies to MK I sorry!! With the MK II leave the prop in full forward/fine for shutdown..it is an oil powered constant speed.... Sorry, fixated on MK I... My bad!
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Re: No real sound from Spit wheels on runway....?

Post by Piper_EEWL »

Well you don't have to break right! That would only be better for the spectators in Duxford since they can see the whole show then :wink:

Or you do the R&B the other way. Then you can break left :roll: :)

Happy flying!
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Re: No real sound from Spit wheels on runway....?

Post by BILL1949 »

Sebastian: A valid point tho' . I should be able to do either, shouldn't I...? Somehow, even thinking it to the right just doesn't quite feel natural to me - but I will give It a few tries & let you know how I crashed ...er... I mean... how I got on. :)

Darryl: Yeah... as I said earlier, hindsight being 20/20, I wasn't sure if throttling back when I did was wisest :roll: .
Re: prop - ah, OK, that's kinda reassuring 'cos it means I was wrong about my being wrong - er.. that is, a while back (re the C&D thing) I saw that C&D left prop pitch at coarse. So I did this - but did it before shutdown, & later found that it should be 'fine' at shutdown, so I was doing that and then putting it to coarse afterwards. In my Duxford R&B I (incorrectly) landed partially coarse, then (incorrectly) set it to fully course before shut down.
So, I now know (?) that I should set to fine before landing (which is what I'd previously thought, and had been doing for normal flight, I think - but I failed to do it for the last vid), then I'm to set to coarse after shutdown (...?).
...but this begs the question:
"If I set to coarse after shutdown, then set to fine before startup, and it's oil powered (no cable-stretching) why did I set to coarse after shutdown....' - am I just wearing out the lever...?
...& if you fully understood my 1st para, maybe you could explain it to me - 'cos I lost me..." :?

Thanks again guys.
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Re: No real sound from Spit wheels on runway....?

Post by Killratio »

Ok...the Constant Speed unit on the Spitfire II is oil powered. You leave it in FINE on shutdown and start it in FINE. That is the best setting for it mechanically.

The DH 2 setting airscrew on the Spitfire I is moved by a cable and counterweight system and needs centrifugal force to work (ie, engine running at decent RPM..) All the cable stretching comments etc apply ONLY to the Spitfire I...I just fly that and so I got confused on you...sorry. The doctor told me I had that memory disease..can't remember what it is called and can't remember which doctor told me.

(Oh, and yes, this IS all modelled in the A2A bird. )

So on Spitfire II that you fly, go back to :

1. Start in Full fine.
2. Test movement on runup checks.
3. Full Fine for takeoff BUT..watch RPM as it is easy to break the 3000 limit on takeoff with the prop in full fine.
4. Fly as at rpm setting you like/suitable.
5. Back to Full Fine on approach to airport or at the latest during BUMPFH check halfway down wind.
6. Keep in full fine for shutdown.

At Full Fine the RPM are actually controlled directly by the throttle....the CSU is outside limits and not working as such....and that is why you can overspeed the airscrew on takeoff.

Hope that is as clear as granite?

D
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Re: No real sound from Spit wheels on runway....?

Post by Piper_EEWL »

BILL1949 wrote:Sebastian: A valid point tho' . I should be able to do either, shouldn't I...? Somehow, even thinking it to the right just doesn't quite feel natural to me - but I will give It a few tries & let you know how I crashed ...er... I mean... how I got on. :)
Hehe. Yes I know it's funny how we are able to or feel more comfortable doing things one way and not the other. But if you want to be a full Spitfire fighter pilot it will be inevitable that you'll have to do it to the right. I guess at least. Yes please let us know how you got on and how many hours overtime the machsnic had to put in :wink: :mrgreen:

@Darryl: I fully understand your explanation about the prop and why the MKI prop should be fully coarse when parked and the MKII can be fully fine. The question is: Why is the MKII prop fully coarse when you load the plane Cold&Dark?? I'll have to go back to the manual but maybe you also know the answer.
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Re: No real sound from Spit wheels on runway....?

Post by BILL1949 »

Right break: Mmmm - curious tho'. I imagine that it depends on our 'handedness'. I suspect the body (and consequently the mind) is more comfy with the hand pushing towards the centre of the body, rather than than pulling away from it (maybe a survival instinct thing - maybe the arms naturally want to be in a protective position rather than in an exposing one...?). Pure 'off-the-top-of-my-head' theory....... I wonder if left-handers feel a bit more comfy to break to the right (until fully used to breaking to left)...?

Many thanks for that Darryl - clear as the clearest clear thing on clarity day :D .
(Yeah, the memory thing - you already said about that - loadsa times. Maybe you should see someone about it. Until I was cured, I used to have trouble staying on topic, but the sandwich I had yesterday was much smaller than if was riding a bike on a Saturday - even without braces (& of course, regardless of my height - tho' I HAVE seen a 'roo in a wildlife park near Adelaide) :D .

Keep it coming dudes.
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