A2A Spit roll

[BILL1949]

Can anyone help me here? I have the A2A Spit (& I LOVE it!!), which I fly in FSX (SE). I'm finding that in normal flight (regardless of prop pitch etc) the aircraft constantly wants to roll anti-clock, so I have to hold a permanent hefty right-roll to stay level (at a guess, it's about 15º to right on the stick - about an inch of movement to right at the top of the stick).

I've gone to the A2A Spit Input Configurator, but of course there's no option for aileron trim there. I've also tried assigning keys in FSX for setting aileron trim, but this simply has an odd effect on the screen view even though these desired keys are not assigned to anything else (the view on screen just twitches briefly).

I assigned the hat switch on the stick to adjust the trim, but this occurs VERY slowly as I hold the hat & simply restores the ailerons when I release the hat switch (it also has no noticeable effect because it would take too long to reach the required setting).

The issue isn't with my (calibrated) stick as my A2A Cherokee doesn't have this problem at all.

Is this constant need for very significant right aileron actually normal for a Spit, or does a real Spit maybe have some kind of fixed aileron trim, or is there something I can do to overcome it?

But if that's how it is, then that's how it is....

Many thanks to anyone who can put me right on this.

[Nick - A2A]

Hello Bill,

During normal cruise, the Spit should have very agreeable handling. Although the big Merlin produces a lot of torque (i.e. a left swerve) during take-off, the left rolling tendency in flight which you're describing seems a bit excessive. (Incidentally, here's an article on the aerodynamic left-turning tendencies of aircraft which you may find interesting.)

Does the left roll happen regardless of the throttle setting? For instance, if you descend at cruise speed for a few moments, but with the throttle closed, does the aeroplane still want to roll to the left?

If so, the first thing to check is probably the rudder trim setting (a wheel on the left hand side of the cockpit). The Spit doesn't have aileron trim, but a misadjusted rudder trim tab could perhaps be producing the rolling tendency you describe. However, I think rudder trim is zeroed each time you restart a flight.

Cheers,
Nick

[Lewis - A2A]

Given the winds recently, if using real weather over the UK, make sure you take the weather into account, the weathers been no fly weather for a Spitfire of late

thanks,
Lewis

[BILL1949]

Many thanks chaps for your replies (which I've only just managed to get to.)
Nick - No rudder trim set. Roll tendency still happens when cruising with throttle closed. Also tried with different prop pitch etc - same. Stick also re-calibrated multiple times. I also use the CH Pro Pedals for rudder - also re-calibrated these - no difference. (BTW, the article was very interesting - thanks.)

Lewis - not using 'real weather'.

I also note that when in the 3rd-person in-flight view the rudder doesn't visibly move anything like as much as it does when viewed on the ground. Is that to be expected?

In an attempt to demonstrate the problem (if it really is one) I've uploaded a short vid to my You Tube channel, appropriately titled.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCWMq2j ... G0J2PftkYA
During this vid I glanced around a few times to show the aileron positions.

Hope this helps.

Many thanks for your time.

[Piper_EEWL]

That is really weird. I just took my Spitfire MKI (I know you're flying the MKII in the video) for a spin. And even with ASN SP4 providing the weather I can easily let go of the stick in cruise and the Spitfire keeps flying strait. Rudder trim is 0 degrees. If it wants to roll it'll roll to the left but definitely not with such a rate as yours does in the video. Does your MKI fly strait?

You have the Accusim package right? Are you sure that there's nothing wrong with the plane in the maintenance hangar (not sure if aileron failure would be modeled on the Spit but I don't believe it is??). Also did you run the latest updater if you have Accusim? The updater can be found here. Just download an run as administrator.

Are you really sure it's not a control issue?

Sorry but I'm kinda fishing in the dark here.

[BILL1949]

Hi Piper...

Many thanks for coming back to me on this. I was waiting for battle in War Thunder, but this prompted me to cancel & give it a try.

Currently loading - will come back ASAP.

[BILL1949]

Right. made this a new post as not sure if notifications are sent for an edit.

Piper..., sir, I think you were correct - a controller issue it seems - but it's odd..
I confirmed that the issue is there with the IIB & then went to the IA. The 1A also rolled - but maybe not as bad - - - & to the right.....?

I have a spare stick (same as the other one - Speedlink's Black Widow - cheap & great), so I replaced the existing one (newer, 1 week old) with the older spare. No rolling!! Thinking it odd that my a very new stick might be faulty, I swapped them back to verify (so then using the newer stick). No rolling!!(??).

I can only guess that comms between my stick & PC went temporarily scrambled, then unplugging & re-plugging allowed a 'refresh'. The 'odd' thing is that I'm sure that I did the 'unplug/re-plug' thing a while back & it made no difference.....

The final outcome is that I've been able to look down & fiddle with things & check stuff while the Spit flies itself.

Oh, I LOVE the Spit - & A2A have done such a great job with it.
I'm really not an 'anorak', but for me no other aircraft, past, present, or future can equal it.

Thanks to you guys for your willingness to help.

[Piper_EEWL]

Ok. Good to hear you're up and flying (strait and level ). Sometimes a complete system restart after such issues will also help.

Yes you're correct. The Spitfire is really great to fly. And the sound of that Merlin

Anyways take care and happy flying

[BILL1949]

Umm... should let you know that the roll returned yesterday... - using either stick. This was after loading the IIB at Andrewsfield.

Swapped sticks & USB ports - same.
*Loaded IB - same
New flight - Loaded IIA - OK
Crashed badly due to hefty spin (own fault, but a good test) - repaired - OK
New flight - Loaded IIB - OK


* I can't be sure right now whether I started a new flight for this one or the info above is all totally correct. I created a comprehensive post about this @~ 03:00 this morning, got diverted, got timed out (without saving to draft) & lost my work - so all the above is from current (tired) memory .

It seems rather intermittent, so wondering if this all might be due to something in the loading...? On one occasion (tho' it has happened before), after loading a Spit @ Andrewsfield the landing-light switch was constantly clicking (with sound) between left & off (& I think I couldn't operate switches etc - but not sure). Went to the 'replenishing' screen and this had a FULLY transparent background & no border.
Ended flight & re- loaded - OK.

Does this sound like an uninstall/re-install of Spit & Accu-sim is required? (In that order (?) - sounds logical.)
BTW - I think I did the Accu-sim update mentioned earlier - but I see that it's actually for P3D, & I'm using FSX (SE).

[Piper_EEWL]

Ahh it was to good to be true wasn't it? But don't worry we'll get there

What's your standard flight? Is it in a FSX stock aircraft or an Addon?
How do you load a flight? After the sim is started do select your airport load the sim and the select the Spitfire or do you else to the Spit at the start screen?

The updater is not only for P3D. It only says that it now is fully compatible with P3D V3. So if you haven't downloaded and ran the updater I would definitely do that first before we keep looking for a problem.

Download here and run as administrator:

http://a2asimulations.com/forum/viewtop ... 78&t=41279

[Nick - A2A]

Hello Bill,

Sounds like quite a tricky little issue to pin down. A couple of your comments...

I've also tried assigning keys in FSX for setting aileron trim, but this simply has an odd effect on the screen view even though these desired keys are not assigned to anything else (the view on screen just twitches briefly).

It seems rather intermittent, so wondering if this all might be due to something in the loading...? On one occasion (tho' it has happened before), after loading a Spit @ Andrewsfield the landing-light switch was constantly clicking (with sound) between left & off (& I think I couldn't operate switches etc - but not sure).

...Make it sound like there's either some sort of software or control conflict, or an issue of some sort with the installation.

However, definitely try as Sebastian recommended above and download/run the Accu-Sim updater before you try reinstalling. Also, is there any other software you're running which could be involved (e.g. FSUIPC)?

Thanks,
Nick

[BILL1949]

Thanks again chaps.

Piper - 'Standard' is my Spit IIB from Southend - which is how the 'Free flight' screen opens.
For my testing, on the Free Flight screen I'm swapping to Andrewsfield (less busy graphics-wise). So, once I have the airfield & the Spit selected, I 'FLY NOW'.

Nick - Do you suspect a possible issue with the Spit installation or FSX (or both)?
Not using FSUIPC.


OK. Today I did some extensive testing (you're definitely gonna need a cuppa & a bickie for this one...).

A2A Spit - testing for roll

• For these tests I was NOT saving the flight, but sometimes it behaved as if I had saved...?

• If roll is going to occur, it’s quite evident at lift off, and as soon as I release stick during flight.

• It seems to be an issue if Spit IIB is the 1st load - until I load a different aircraft and then return to the IIB (which then doesn’t roll).

• There are some differences since installing the Accu-sim update (eg - engine sound (I think) & the metalic 'cooldown' sounds). Also, there’s more aircraft shake at engine start – BUT, sadly, no undercarriage sound....? (Environment sounds are at max.)

• I replenished & repaired at start of each test, except for those where engine was running at arrival on active runway (there had been no damage).


Open FSX
From Free Flight screen - select Andrewsfield
IIB - Andrewsfield (winter) - Roll
IIA - Andrewsfield – I left Brake on….. – nosed over - repaired & replenished
Started - no throttle response - engine died
Started - Wouldn't run
Replenished Oxy (.....all else was OK)
Started - responded to throttle this time (maybe I previously had too little throttle while still not very warm...?)
Took off - no roll
Boost = 0
Pitch = 70%
2500 rpm
Landed @ Andrewsfield OK

End flight

From Free Flight screen - select IIB
Load
Take-off & flight OK. (I note that there's virtually no need to use rudder during take-off, & it doesn't
roll at lift-off.)
Landed OK & shutdown

End flight

Close FSX
==============================================

Open FSX
Free flight shows Spit IIB
Select Andrewsfield
Load
Take-off - rolls at lift-off & rolls in flight

End flight (no landing)
Swap to IIA
Take-off & flight OK - no roll

End flight (no landing)

From Free Flight screen Swap to IIB
Load
Take-off & flight OK - no roll

End flight (no landing)


Close FSX
=================================================

Open FSX
From Free Flight screen - select IIA & Andrewsfield
Load
Take-off & flight OK. (No roll)

End flight (no landing)

From Free Flight screen - select IIB
Take-off & flight OK (no roll)

End flight

Close FSX

==========================================
Installed the update.
==============================================
Open FSX
SelectAndrewsfield (IIB is already set).
Load
Roll @ take-off & in flight.

End flight

From Free Flight screen, FLY NOW (without changing from IIB or the airfield)
Roll @ take-off & in flight.

End flight (no landing)

From Free Flight screen - select IIA (all Spit versions now follow my A2A Cherokee, instead of
appearing at end of my aircraft list.)
Load
Take-off & flight OK (no roll)

End flight (no landing)

Close FSX

=============================================
Open FSX
From Free Flight screen - select IIA & Andrewsfield
Load
This loaded at active runway, as before – BUT with the engine running (I might have 'Paused' before
ending previous flight in IIB....?)

End flight (without 'Pausing')

Close FSX

=============================================
Open FSX
From Free Flight screen - select IIA & Andrewsfield
Load (Again, this loaded at active runway with the engine running. (I didn't Pause' before ending
previous flight in IIA.)
Throttled up but diverted attention to open canopy - & nosed down. I don't believe I clicked to End
Flight, but was presented with that option screen, so I ended.
FLY NOW (same selections as before)
Active runway - engine NOT running this time.
Replenished & repaired
Take-off & flight OK (no roll)

End flight (no landing)

From Free Flight screen - select IIB
This loaded at active runway, with the engine running.
Take-off & flight OK (no roll)
============================================================
Finally, and to give all possible info, I'll add that my FSX now sits on my new 120G SSD (using the same folder path, created on the SSD to mach that of FSX on C:).
This was achieved by http://www.avsim.com/topic/421783-how-t ... new-drive/.
In case not familiar, any call to the old (& renamed) FSX folder on the C: is directed via a 'link' to the SSD where a copy of the FSX folder sits. So, as I understand it, anything (inc updates etc) which would go to the C: will be referred to the FSX folder on the SSD.
I can't be sure when the Spit roll first occurred, but the Spit was installed before FSX was transferred to the SSD. I'm worried that you'll say 'Ah, it's the move to the SSD that's causing the issue' - but at this time I don't believe this to be the cause - because, as from the point of transfer, ALL calls to FSX are redirected to the SSD folder).

Did you enjoy your cuppa?

[Jacques]

Bill,
To clarify, you do not start FSX with a default aircraft, such as the default Cessna or the trike ? Rather, when FSX finishes loading the Spit IIb is spinning waiting for you to select "fly now" ?

[Piper_EEWL]

Hehe that's the spirit Bill. Nice long testing. I indeed enjoyed a cup of tea with that

Back to your problem though. Jacques is correct. You should not have a flight that has the Spitfire (or in fact any complex addon aircraft) as your standard flight. You might want to go back to the stock FSX standard flight with the Trike and set this as the standard flight. After you've done this restart FSX. If you want to fly the Spitfire (or again any other complex addon aircraft) you should always go to the airport that you want to start out on with a stock FSX aircraft. After the simulation has loaded on the airfield (e.g. Andrewsfield) go to select aircraft and pick the Spitfire.

I'm sorry to ask that since you've put that much work in it already but do you want to try it again with a stock FSX aircraft as your standard plane and then load the Spitfire into your sim as described above?

Also with Accusim you shouldn't end the flight and still have the engine running or systems powered. Since the Accusim aircraft are persistent that might mess things up. I always shut them down properly as I do in RL. I wouldn't leave a plane in RL out with the engine running either

Hope this helps

[robert41]

Yes, do not use a complex addon aircraft for the default starting flight. FSX only saves certain parameters with an aircraft and cannot save those from a more complex one like Accusim.
I also had a similar issue with the ailerons "stuck" at a certain angle when first loading an aircraft. Started when a new throttle was installed. Turns out that the aileron axis was mapped to a button on the throttle. Deleting the throttle aileron setting fixed the issue.