UNDERCARRIAGE

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BLomas
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Joined: 16 May 2013, 14:38

UNDERCARRIAGE

Post by BLomas »

With the MkIIa every forth or fifth flight I take one leg sticks up when lowering the undercarriage. Is this a programmed failure to add a little realism? If so it is perhaps a little over done. So, If it is can it be modified and if not what is the cure?

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Killratio
A2A Spitfire Crew Chief
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Re: UNDERCARRIAGE

Post by Killratio »

BLomas wrote:With the MkIIa every forth or fifth flight I take one leg sticks up when lowering the undercarriage. Is this a programmed failure to add a little realism? If so it is perhaps a little over done. So, If it is can it be modified and if not what is the cure?

Are you sure you are not exceeding the gear extention speed? It is VERY easy to do in the Spit II at takeoff settings.
(see http://a2asimulations.com/forum/viewtop ... 77&t=25806 for what happens when someone who REALLY should know better gets careless with the gear settings and indications) Always remember that the Spitfire U/C indicator works only in a POSITIVE fashion...up or down. A problem shows up only by the LACK of indication.

There is certainly no programmed "common" failure for no reason, although there ARE rare random failures...but they are not seen often.

Oh, and did you try the emergency undercarriage CO2 bottle. Did that lower the gear when the hydraulic system wouldn't? If so, double check your hydraulic fluid before each flight and the Maintenance Hangar report...you may have a hydraulic leak that takes 3 or 4 flights to get down to "failure" level.

With the model, as in reality, though, the Spitfire is not as tolerant of her systems being mishandled as her flight characteristics are of mishandling.


Keep a watch on the speed/rpm/"gear up" light and see if that helps.

Darryl
<Sent from my 1988 Sony Walkman with Dolby Noise Reduction and 24" earphone cord extension>


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BLomas
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Posts: 12
Joined: 16 May 2013, 14:38

Re: UNDERCARRIAGE

Post by BLomas »

Killratio wrote:
BLomas wrote:With the MkIIa every forth or fifth flight I take one leg sticks up when lowering the undercarriage. Is this a programmed failure to add a little realism? If so it is perhaps a little over done. So, If it is can it be modified and if not what is the cure?

Are you sure you are not exceeding the gear extention speed? It is VERY easy to do in the Spit II at takeoff settings.
(see http://a2asimulations.com/forum/viewtop ... 77&t=25806 for what happens when someone who REALLY should know better gets careless with the gear settings and indications) Always remember that the Spitfire U/C indicator works only in a POSITIVE fashion...up or down. A problem shows up only by the LACK of indication.

There is certainly no programmed "common" failure for no reason, although there ARE rare random failures...but they are not seen often.

Oh, and did you try the emergency undercarriage CO2 bottle. Did that lower the gear when the hydraulic system wouldn't? If so, double check your hydraulic fluid before each flight and the Maintenance Hangar report...you may have a hydraulic leak that takes 3 or 4 flights to get down to "failure" level.

With the model, as in reality, though, the Spitfire is not as tolerant of her systems being mishandled as her flight characteristics are of mishandling.


Keep a watch on the speed/rpm/"gear up" light and see if that helps.

Darryl
Thank you Daryl, I am military trained so the checks are virtually instinctive but I take your point. Yes I implemented the emergency procedures and they all work. One has to be more careful with flight sim than real world flying due to the lack of peripheral vision. I was just curios as to why it happens so often.

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Killratio
A2A Spitfire Crew Chief
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Joined: 29 Jul 2008, 23:41
Location: The South West of the large island off the north coast of Tasmania
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Re: UNDERCARRIAGE

Post by Killratio »

No worries.

The Spitfire's gear was a compromise right from the beginning. The size and placement were determined by the need for fitting eight guns in the wings, more than gear strength and ground handling. That is why the track is so narrow and everything relatively "fine boned". That caused merry hell with the Seafire...but I digress.

From what you are saying it sounds more to me, though, like hydraulic fluid bleeding over time. Particularly as it is happening regularly. I'd keep a close eye on the hydraulic fluid level. That indicates either a leak from damage or that you have a "Monday Morning" Spitfire in the gear department that bleeds hydraulic fluid quicker than usual. I had one once that insisted on blowing black smoke for almost twice as long as normal on startup and being particularly cantankerous in cold weather. (so much so that I got a tap on the shoulder from the wife one morning at 0500ish and was reminded all too bluntly that some people were trying to sleep and weren't very interested in "the bleeping cold oil" or the fact that "the rotten stinking bleep beep son of a motherless bleeping bleep cartridge holder was empty now".

There are random quirks built in to Accusim but they, by themselves, should not cause actual "damage" quickly on a regular basis. It is more a case of "this Spitfire burns a little more oil" or "this Spitfire runs the accumulator down a little more quickly" or "This Spitfire gets me in trouble with the wife".


I've found over time that some of these "traits" are inherent in the airframe and some are inherent in the component. So one particular aircraft may always burn a little more oil, even after overhaul.. that is just how that Merlin runs..but another may burn extra oil from one overhaul until the next..then the problem disappears.

Very occasionally you may get a "bung" component too, it seems. I once had a left mag that was showing 110 drop and some fool replaced it at overhaul with one that gave 150!!!

The key to all these events is that they are usually minor and relatively uncommon. I have many hundreds of hours on the Spit between beta testing, fun and Photo Recon "missions" and the above are the only significant instances I can think of in all that time.

If it IS a corrupt cfg file and damage IS happening too regularly, then the best way to fix/test that is to delete the "dat" file under C:/documents/A2A/Spitfire and let the system generate a new one. That usually fixes things in that, unlikely, event.

Let me know how you go with the U/C problem,

regards


Darryl
<Sent from my 1988 Sony Walkman with Dolby Noise Reduction and 24" earphone cord extension>


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BLomas
Airman
Posts: 12
Joined: 16 May 2013, 14:38

Re: UNDERCARRIAGE

Post by BLomas »

Killratio wrote:No worries.

The Spitfire's gear was a compromise right from the beginning. The size and placement were determined by the need for fitting eight guns in the wings, more than gear strength and ground handling. That is why the track is so narrow and everything relatively "fine boned". That caused merry hell with the Seafire...but I digress.

From what you are saying it sounds more to me, though, like hydraulic fluid bleeding over time. Particularly as it is happening regularly. I'd keep a close eye on the hydraulic fluid level. That indicates either a leak from damage or that you have a "Monday Morning" Spitfire in the gear department that bleeds hydraulic fluid quicker than usual. I had one once that insisted on blowing black smoke for almost twice as long as normal on startup and being particularly cantankerous in cold weather. (so much so that I got a tap on the shoulder from the wife one morning at 0500ish and was reminded all too bluntly that some people were trying to sleep and weren't very interested in "the bleeping cold oil" or the fact that "the rotten stinking bleep beep son of a motherless bleeping bleep cartridge holder was empty now".

There are random quirks built in to Accusim but they, by themselves, should not cause actual "damage" quickly on a regular basis. It is more a case of "this Spitfire burns a little more oil" or "this Spitfire runs the accumulator down a little more quickly" or "This Spitfire gets me in trouble with the wife".


I've found over time that some of these "traits" are inherent in the airframe and some are inherent in the component. So one particular aircraft may always burn a little more oil, even after overhaul.. that is just how that Merlin runs..but another may burn extra oil from one overhaul until the next..then the problem disappears.

Very occasionally you may get a "bung" component too, it seems. I once had a left mag that was showing 110 drop and some fool replaced it at overhaul with one that gave 150!!!

The key to all these events is that they are usually minor and relatively uncommon. I have many hundreds of hours on the Spit between beta testing, fun and Photo Recon "missions" and the above are the only significant instances I can think of in all that time.

If it IS a corrupt cfg file and damage IS happening too regularly, then the best way to fix/test that is to delete the "dat" file under C:/documents/A2A/Spitfire and let the system generate a new one. That usually fixes things in that, unlikely, event.

Let me know how you go with the U/C problem,

regards


Darryl
Taking on board what you suggested I took off at 0500 hrs this morning my usual time (always use a headset) gained some height and let the undercarriage down at 60, 70 and 80 knts, no trouble and no jamming. My routine before pre-start checks is shift+3, damage off. +4 top ups and ammunition remove to keep weight down. +7 for engine check. Then brakes on.fuel on. throttle prime and set.masters on. (no masters). mags on both, start, warm at 1600 RPM then 1850 RPM. wait foe radiator at 70 Deg. TRIM. THROTTLE FRICTION.TEMPERATURES. MAGNETOS.MASTER SWITCH. MIXTURE. PETO HEATER.PROPS.PRESSURES. FUEL.FREEDOM OF CONTROLS.FLAPS. GIROS.GILLS.GENERATORS. HATCHES.HARNESS.HOURS. I find it hard to believe but I have been doing this on and off for 60 years! I now have a woodburner in my cockpit so at last I have been promoted to 'pilot stoker'. Thank you for the suggestion of computer modifications. I can rebuild aero engines and airframes but alas, computers are an anathema to me. Bob.

BLomas
Airman
Posts: 12
Joined: 16 May 2013, 14:38

Re: UNDERCARRIAGE

Post by BLomas »

BLomas wrote:
Killratio wrote:No worries.

The Spitfire's gear was a compromise right from the beginning. The size and placement were determined by the need for fitting eight guns in the wings, more than gear strength and ground handling. That is why the track is so narrow and everything relatively "fine boned". That caused merry hell with the Seafire...but I digress.

From what you are saying it sounds more to me, though, like hydraulic fluid bleeding over time. Particularly as it is happening regularly. I'd keep a close eye on the hydraulic fluid level. That indicates either a leak from damage or that you have a "Monday Morning" Spitfire in the gear department that bleeds hydraulic fluid quicker than usual. I had one once that insisted on blowing black smoke for almost twice as long as normal on startup and being particularly cantankerous in cold weather. (so much so that I got a tap on the shoulder from the wife one morning at 0500ish and was reminded all too bluntly that some people were trying to sleep and weren't very interested in "the bleeping cold oil" or the fact that "the rotten stinking bleep beep son of a motherless bleeping bleep cartridge holder was empty now".

There are random quirks built in to Accusim but they, by themselves, should not cause actual "damage" quickly on a regular basis. It is more a case of "this Spitfire burns a little more oil" or "this Spitfire runs the accumulator down a little more quickly" or "This Spitfire gets me in trouble with the wife".


I've found over time that some of these "traits" are inherent in the airframe and some are inherent in the component. So one particular aircraft may always burn a little more oil, even after overhaul.. that is just how that Merlin runs..but another may burn extra oil from one overhaul until the next..then the problem disappears.

Very occasionally you may get a "bung" component too, it seems. I once had a left mag that was showing 110 drop and some fool replaced it at overhaul with one that gave 150!!!

The key to all these events is that they are usually minor and relatively uncommon. I have many hundreds of hours on the Spit between beta testing, fun and Photo Recon "missions" and the above are the only significant instances I can think of in all that time.

If it IS a corrupt cfg file and damage IS happening too regularly, then the best way to fix/test that is to delete the "dat" file under C:/documents/A2A/Spitfire and let the system generate a new one. That usually fixes things in that, unlikely, event.

Let me know how you go with the U/C problem,

regards


Darryl
My previus submission should have read 160, 170 and 180 kts

Taking on board what you suggested I took off at 0500 hrs this morning my usual time (always use a headset) gained some height and let the undercarriage down at 160, 170 and 180 knts, no trouble and no jamming. My routine before pre-start checks is shift+3, damage off. +4 top ups and ammunition remove to keep weight down. +7 for engine check. Then brakes on.fuel on. throttle prime and set.masters on. (no masters). mags on both, start, warm at 1600 RPM then 1850 RPM. wait foe radiator at 70 Deg. TRIM. THROTTLE FRICTION.TEMPERATURES. MAGNETOS.MASTER SWITCH. MIXTURE. PETO HEATER.PROPS.PRESSURES. FUEL.FREEDOM OF CONTROLS.FLAPS. GIROS.GILLS.GENERATORS. HATCHES.HARNESS.HOURS. I find it hard to believe but I have been doing this on and off for 60 years! I now have a woodburner in my cockpit so at last I have been promoted to 'pilot stoker'. Thank you for the suggestion of computer modifications. I can rebuild aero engines and airframes but alas, computers are an anathema to me. Bob.

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