The A2A Simulations Community

"Come share your passion for flight"
It is currently Mon Dec 17, 2018 8:42 am

All times are UTC - 5 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 63 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5
Author Message
PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2018 2:57 am 
Offline
Airman First Class
User avatar

Joined: Sun Feb 13, 2011 9:03 am
Posts: 63
Location: nr Munich, Bavaria
@Killratio. Did you mean to say that the WW II pilots flew ‚feet on the ground‘ i. e. did not use rudder?
That is not so. I remember reading in the memoirs of a Spitfire pilot that one of his tricks was to enter a (e. g.) tight left turn and then instead of pushing the left rudder as ‚proper‘, pushing the right rudder, thereby slowing down dramatically and at the same time drifting out of the turn while the pursuer, who used aileron and rudder conventionally, would overshoot.
On the ‚other side‘, Hartmann, the pilot with the most shoot downs, used rudder to slow down (a slip) while in a slight dive, at the same time reducing power and pushing the stick slightly forward. That made the pursuer overshoot, too.
So, the pilots did use their feet because several aerobatic maneuvres made extensive use of rudder.
I believe (although I cannot prove it because there is no detailed description of the flying technique in the memoirs) that the WW II pilots did use rudder instinctively. They had had it drilled into them by their teachers.
I would be interested to hear from someone who has - the same or other - information/experience.
Volker

_________________
Image
Image

Image[/url]
Any landing that you can walk away from is a good landing!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2018 7:27 pm 
Offline
A2A Spitfire Crew Chief
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 29, 2008 11:41 pm
Posts: 5294
Location: The South West of the large island off the north coast of Tasmania
Hi Volker,

Firstly, no, I am not saying that WW2 pilots didn't use the rudder while flying. What I am saying is that the Spitfire Pilot's Notes SPECIFICALLY recommend against it (especially when flying on instruments). Secondly, my qualifier was "in all normal phases of flight"

There are some aerobatics, particularly the slower ones, where the rudder is used, as it is on takeoff and landing. In all other normal flying, the rudder is unnecessary as the design eliminates the adverse yaw which the rudder is there to deal with.

That it is specifically mentioned in the Notes is testimony to the fact that most, if not all, aircraft likely to have been previously flown by those pilots required liberal use of rudder. A Tiger Moth, for instance, is quite difficult to turn (and impossible to turn well) without LEADING the turn with rudder. A skill which takes a bit to make happen "naturally" for a modern pilot, I can tell you!

There are many tricks and tips to combat flying but for normal flying there is not much call for most of them. I can honestly say that in 20 years of non military flying, I never once had to skid the aircraft to avoid a stream of bullets and on the one occasion that I skidded my nose to pull lead on an aircraft in front of me (on base leg ) and advised my instructor that I could "take a shot right here" I was smartly told that, one, I did not have any guns and two, if I did that again he would rip my head off and deposit waste products in the resultant hole :)

Best regards

Darryl

_________________
Image Image
Image
...Some say he never blinks, and that he roams around the woods at night foraging for Merlin parts...


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2018 4:18 am 
Offline
Airman First Class
User avatar

Joined: Sun Feb 13, 2011 9:03 am
Posts: 63
Location: nr Munich, Bavaria
Hi Darryl,
thank you for pointing out that the design of the Spitfire obviates the need for rudder movement in turns. I did not know that. I thought that the different airflow over the top and bottom wing and its resulting different lift characteristics, made the use of te rudder advisable if one wanted to fly as intended... I should like to know more about that design feature. Is it restricted to the Spit or does, for example, the Me 109 have it, too?
(I try to as much ‚combat flying‘ as possible with both the Spit and the Me; I should like to be able to exchange experiences with other likeminded pilots... but that is off-topic.)
Happy flying!
Volker

_________________
Image
Image

Image[/url]
Any landing that you can walk away from is a good landing!


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 63 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group