My goodness ! It's not that hard to fly at all !

[Killratio]

Sorry not sure what you mean by giving you a yell, if you mean flying online, sorry I don't use FSX online.

Maybe I am in for a rude shock if/when I put on accu-sim ? I am still puzzled as to how the myth that this is the hardest plane to fly came from.

Also if you put on the armaments, (I have only flown the IIb at present) can you fire the guns ?

G'day Mate,



If you are physically TRAVELLING to Western Australia give me a yell and if you want you are more than welcome to come to mine and have a fly of the Spitfire Simulator I've built. ( https://a2asimulations.com/forum/viewto ... &start=270 )


Trim. Think of trim state plotted on a graph.. speed sloping up left to right from the o point and lift starting a little way right (say 80mph) but sloping steeper. At the point they cross, you won't need to use any trim. The further up you go, the more they diverge and the more down trim you will need. The further DOWN you go, the more up trim you need.

There will be a slightly different one of those graphs for each nose attitude in my example but in reality what you are REALLY plotting is Speed and Angle of Attack.. as lift is actually a function of each of those.


Accusim adds the CONSEQUENCES for doing things wrong, so you may or may not get a shock, depending on how you are flying. If you are treating her right then it will not make any difference to the health/performance of the aircraft whether you fly with or without. If you treat her wrong, then without, you're fine. WITH you're a smoking heap on the ground.

Guns, no they don't work BUT the ammo weight affects performance. A2A don't do cheap "smoke and mirrors" effects like flashing guns that don't actually do anything. more focus on real effects of things that CAN be done well in FSX. TacPac does, I believe make weapons functional with some customising.. but I haven't and wouldn't ever bother personally.


140 IAS .. indicated airspeed. ASI in the Spitfire is calibrated in MPH. No calc necessary. 140 IAS IS 140 MPH.

Yep, I leave the vent open. Fogging in different climates is a different phenomenon FSX doesn't handle weather particularly well, at least not in these subtle differences. The Spitfire ALWAYS fogs up in winter when I fly where I am. So does the C172. But in nearly 20 years of real flying I have had 1 instance of the windshield fogging up and THAT was towelled off before we left the ground, to stay off for the entire flight. Just leave the vent open and write it off to experience. The fogging model works perfectly, at least where Scott tested it for real.

Don't worry about going "off the gauge" the engine power got WAY ahead of the changes in gauges. Even the Spitfire II was boost gauged to 8lb sq in LONG after 12 was possible. Full normal throttle Spitfire I will go off the gauge but IS actually 6.25 or thereabouts, perfectly allowable. 12 lbs sq in boost cutout does not show any higher reading on the gauge. Just "feel" between 4 and 6.25 and over that, you will be shaking so much your teeth will tell you an approximate boost figure (the number that fall out per minute )

best

Darryl

[Styggron]

Thank you Darryl,
My goodness that cockpit. many of the photos no longer work but the ones near the end do. That is just amazing let alone getting the gauges / switches to work with your computer and the A2A Spitfire.

Yes Accu-sim will add consequences as well, this is why it would be nice to be able to turn it off but it does not work like that sadly. Bummer about not being able to fire the guns would have been fun.
Ok so 140 MPH is 140 IAS ok cool. Yes the fogging up happens even with the base model I was surprised but it does.

Going to fly out of Duxford soon. See how much I can push, maybe things won't break because there is no accu-sim

[Killratio]

Glad you like the Sim, thank you, she is named for my wife



A test for you if you like.

Start next to the runway at Duxford, say just off the end.
Start timer or stop watch.
Start Spitfire manually.
Run at high idle, needle just a width below where the rpm calibration starts
Wait for at least 15 degrees oil temp AND 60 degrees radiator.
Takeoff, turn towards East coast and climb to 20,000 ft.

Post your time.

Congrats, you are now ready to pot a Hun.

[Styggron]

Glad you like the Sim, thank you, she is named for my wife



A test for you if you like.

Start next to the runway at Duxford, say just off the end.
Start timer or stop watch.
Start Spitfire manually.
Run at high idle, needle just a width below where the rpm calibration starts
Wait for at least 15 degrees oil temp AND 60 degrees radiator.
Takeoff, turn towards East coast and climb to 20,000 ft.

Post your time.

Congrats, you are now ready to pot a Hun.

Hello Killratio.
Ummm "width below where the rpm calibration starts" not sure what that means. Also not sure about "you are not ready to pot a hun"..... ummmmm "pot a hun?"

I apologise in advance for my lack of understanding.

My goodness a Spitfire can go to 20,000 feet ? Wow.

[Styggron]

ummmm

errrrr........yes well....umm I tried doing all that. Took me 13m41s to get to 20,000 feet because half way doing it I realised I was only going 70 MPH so I levelled off to gain speed and then flew up.... I'lll try that again....

Ummmm I tried a dive and.........well...............ummm I could not recover from it and I went bye bye.............I wonder if it was because I had the RPM lever to 70% instead of 100..... the black control not the throttle....

Ummmm then I had another problem, I overshot the run way so did a mini nose dive and..............well...............I flipped it over handing hard, broke the propeller, landing gear and the right wheel was blown.

All WITHOUT accu-sim too. Just Accu-feel. That has to be a testament of just how good accu-feel is ! My goodness I wonder what damage I would have gotten if I had accu-sim !

Here is one of the photos I took. Oooops
Also the canopy fogged up a lot even though I had the vent on 100% (right control) unless there is a left vent. I better check.

[Killratio]

More than a few of my Spitfires have ended up looking similar over these last few years!


Canopy fog.. no, there is no left vent. What happened I would guess was not fog.. but ice forming due to your rapid dive. Water vapour is sucked out of the air and condenses on the cold canopy thereafter freezing. Different conditions to form than actual fogging. (Yep..all modelled!!) You can use the deicing valve on the lower right cockpit wall to clear ONLY the armoured windscreen. The rest you just have to wait until it melts.Opening the canopy will improve things marginally.

13 minutes 41 seconds.. not bad, considering your fixed pitch airscrew and climb speed boo-boo. K9787 did it in 9.4 minutes FROM TAKEOFF with a test pilot at the controls. My best effort, I see from my testing notes was 10 minutes 46 seconds for the same as you have just done. SO, well done.!! (I was in a Spitfire I, looks like you used a IIb ??)

"Width needle" The RPM gauge is calibrated from vertical down on the needle and the readable SCALE starts around 1600RPM. Get the throttle set to bring the needle to just outside its own width again BELOW the 1600rpm and you are roughly at fast warm up idle. Not ideal, a little too fast but see next...

"Pot a Hun" Shoot down a German. What you have just done is a classic Battle of Britain type "scramble" to intercept a raid coming in.


Dive too long, RPM setting too low = airscrew driving the engine instead of the other way around. Tends to let the White Smoke out of the box.

Overshoot, dive for the runway.... one of those classic aviation "accidents waiting to happen". Pushing forward because too high and fast increases Angle of Attack, increases lift, so rather than lose height, you actually gain it. (can't feel it in the sim but in real life it is MOST unpleasant) Then you end up higher than you were, slower than you were and further down the runway than you were. Then it is only low speed handling, runway length, pilot skill and luck that decide the matter. Worst case you end up too slow, stop flying, nose low and .. well, I don't have to tell YOU, do I??


20,000ft? Yes, the Spit will do that and more. I've had her fully controllable at just over 30,000ft and slopping around like a drunken sailor at about 32,500 from memory. (OH, don't forget to turn on oxygen, put on mask AND adjust flow height on the regulator if staying above 12,000 to 14,000 for any length of time, otherwise you will pass out and become the worlds latest historical lawndart... as a Meerkat would say "Seemples")

[Styggron]

Thank you so much for that Killratio.
I shall try that again tonight. The fast scramble. This time I shall climb more competently. It never liked to climb faster than "2" or 200 feet per minute I gather that would be, the needle shook. My airspeed was not good enough. I'll do better tonight. I use the Spitfire's timer. What I do I a) align up with the runway and come to a full stop. b)I hit the start timer c) I throttle up and take off then when very close to 20,000 I keep my eye on altimeter then hit the "stop" timer. I might record some efforts on twitch. I love the Spitfire, the RAF and Battle of Britain. If there are more "Battle of Britain" type things I can do in the Spit, please let me know. So was that fast scramble and climb to 20,000 just called "fast scramble" ? or did it have a proper name ?

Oh one thing re pitch trim.... there must be a proper setting to use here for take off.....suggestions ?

Yes the one I fly is the IIb although I don't like the Pluto on the front. No other skins came with it. Maybe I need some new ones ? I saw some on the threads here but there are no pictures of them so I don't know what they look like so didn't want to put them on.

So it was ice? ok. Hmmm. Yes it just looked like fog. Good that it is modeled but they really need to make it look more like "ice" which looks different. Does it look like fog with accu-sim as well instead of little crystals of ice ? Yes I opened the cockpit it helped a little but the front was still foggy. Never tried de ice only the fog because it looked like fog. Again all without accu-sim. I'm starting to think more and more I totally don't need accu-sim if I have accu-feel (and accu-feel CAN be turned off unlike accu-sim)

Dive: Ok so if I had my RPM higher might I have stood a better chance ? I'lll find out I guess. So I should not dive for too long. Also how come my control surfaces made not the slightest difference to get me out of that dive ? up down left right, nothing at all worked......as I hit the ground the screen just went red.

Oxygen: Not sure if that is modelled without accu-sim but I put on the mask after 10,000 feet anyway. I just used the quick menu for the mask and then.....ummmm there was another setting for that.

The landing.I'm trying not to fly the spit as a GA aircraft so I do more warplane type manoeuvres. Maybe my pitch trim was way out still I need to learn the settings on that to set it correctly by the numbers. But yes I was 1/4 in the runway, so I pitched down all was looking PERFECT however. I did note that on approach, I was just under 140IAS so I put the gear down which really makes the plane drop by the way, again even without accu sim, but I fear that drop made me go over 140 and his around 160 which might have damaged the gear. The landing seemed to be ok but hard !!!! and when I tried to steer straight you could feel accu-feel simulating the wheels really digging into the tarmac and I was going sideways with one wing down and then flipped, nose went into the ground and I then slid on the ground for quite a while and came to a stop with those pictures.

What really surprised me was it was all without accu-sim. Starting to think more and more I don't need accu-sim at all.

[Styggron]

Test results so far

Recap
* Spitfire with accu-feel (and not accu-sim)
* Spitfire base model only with accu-feel off
* Spitfire with accu-sim installed (still not sure if I will do this test because I don't think I can remove accu-sim from the spit once installed)

Test status so far is Spitfire with accu-feel
*Accu-feel really does an amazing job. The only thing I seem to be missing are the sounds of some of the internal parts. Again, $24.99 for that is just way too much ($19.99 if you add accu-sim when buying the plane). Yes I know it models the oil, engine accurately, cockpit shake etc, I get that but with accu-feel, I'd say it is better value from the tests so far because you can apply it to other planes and other A2A planes without adding accu-sim.
* At present I don't think I will get accu-sim with any other plane if they are separatable unless it has more features like the J3 having Heidi (Yet to test) and the B17 having those radio stations and othe things I really like (not yet tested), and of course COTS with the B377 which is a must.
* I don't see that accu-sim will add $24.99 worth of features for me if you already have accu-feel. Seems no one else has done a test like this. As I said in the OP though, if you get it with accu-sim already you don't know what *is* extra because everything is there. For me I want to know every tiny detail and if it matters to me.
* Canopy still fogs up
* Canopy shake/bufetting is done with accu-feel not tested base model only yet.
* tyre screeching and digging into the tarmac and skidding sideways etc is all accu-feel. Scott gives a demo in Accu-feel ASL when he does a hard landing. It all works with the Spit as you can see from the post above when I did rather a lot of damage to the poor plane.
* Still need to do tests WITHOUT accu-feel to balance it all out.

Not done base model with accu-feel off tests yet but I would say it is a MUST to get accu-feel as for the price, you can improve the other FSX default planes and all A2A that have a separate accu-sim module. Yes you will definitely miss out on some of the sounds and your engine modelling will not be as accurate but you will see, feel a lot of the difference just with accu-feel. A totally amazing product and much cheaper alternative. For full immersion though, accu-sim can NEVER be surpassed I envisage. It all depends how YOU want to fly / purchase. Only the customer and customer ALONE can determine if it is worth it for THEM.

The tests continue. When I find out if I can uninstall accu-sim that will be the last test because I might prefer to have base with accu-feel rather than accu-sim. Please don't shoot me, it is all about our preferences. Forums are about discussions and views. We all support A2A regardless

[Molly - A2A]

Accu-sim is far more than just a few sound effects. It's an entire systems simulation from electrics to internal combustion to hydraulics. In no way is Accu-feel a replacement for any of those systems.

[Killratio]

It never liked to climb faster than "2" or 200 feet per minute I gather that would be, the needle shook. My airspeed was not good enough.

So was that fast scramble and climb to 20,000 just called "fast scramble" ? or did it have a proper name ?

Oh one thing re pitch trim.... there must be a proper setting to use here for take off.....suggestions ?


So it was ice? ok. they really need to make it look more like "ice" which looks different. Does it look like fog with accu-sim as well instead of little crystals of ice ?

Dive: Ok so if I had my RPM higher might I have stood a better chance ? I'lll find out I guess. So I should not dive for too long. Also how come my control surfaces made not the slightest difference to get me out of that dive ? up down left right, nothing at all worked......as I hit the ground the screen just went red


The landing.so I pitched down all was looking PERFECT .

What really surprised me was it was all without accu-sim.

2 is 2000ft per minute. Airspeed for climb.. Below 15000 odd, just use 185 IAS . That is a compromise. Best climb is around 168 but controls are twitchy, angle unpleasant and difference in climb is small.
Above 15000 use 170- 175 IAS. Always use rated climb power (+9, 2850rpm for the IIb if memory serves and the +9 doesn't need the gauge, just use full throttle WITHOUT throwing the red lever) and then adjust nose angle to get speed.... Take the rate that gives you, don't aim for a climb rate.

Nope, just called a Scramble... You will also see Section Scramble, Flight Scramble and Squadron Scramble written, they just refer to the number of aircraft, or, more technically, the size of the formation.

Other Battle of Britain tasks. Really only low level scramble to intercept a convoy raid or something like that... Get off as quick as possible, get to, say, 6000 and get to a coastal location ASAP . Very few standing patrols (go up and patrol Dover at 15000 for one hour). But they did happen. Usually over Convoys at sea. Not so often in the WWI line patrol type of way...RDF (The early British name for Radar) prevented the need for that.

Trim for takeoff is one gauge line nose low of neutral.

Ice different? No, not even in accusim. This is the old Bucket, as Scott calls it. There are only so many effects of each type that can be put into effect in FSX. Hard limited by the program. The Spitfire already uses a full "bucket". There are a lot of other effects that could be added if not for this... Telling how rich the Merlin is running by the colour of the exhaust flames is one that comes to mind. But, simply not possible to add another effect without removing one.. Just how it is....

Above a certain speed in a dive, the controls do not have the authority to pull you out of a dive and the aircraft will actually tuck under and try to roll itself into a ball. The negative g from this is what turned your screen red...blood rushing to your eyes. In the A2A Spitfire this happens around 450mph. So, no, your engine rpm settings wouldn't have changed much if anything.

Alex Henshaw said that he had dived every Spitfire he tested at 450mph. John Romain didn't want to dive the rebuilt P9374 at any more than 405mph....and it took a long time to pull out from 405mph.

Pitch perfect on landing. Yes, in those circumstances it can LOOK perfect but you are not actually moving in the direction you nose is pointing. Part of what makes it dangerous to "dive for the deck"

Accufeel is Accusim Light really and will make all non accusimmed aircraft, including A2A ones without accusimm actually installed much better. I'm glad you like it on the Spitfire and if that makes you enjoy flying more than accusim does/ would, that is what it is all about!

[DHenriques_]

It never liked to climb faster than "2" or 200 feet per minute I gather that would be, the needle shook. My airspeed was not good enough.

So was that fast scramble and climb to 20,000 just called "fast scramble" ? or did it have a proper name ?

Oh one thing re pitch trim.... there must be a proper setting to use here for take off.....suggestions ?


So it was ice? ok. they really need to make it look more like "ice" which looks different. Does it look like fog with accu-sim as well instead of little crystals of ice ?

Dive: Ok so if I had my RPM higher might I have stood a better chance ? I'lll find out I guess. So I should not dive for too long. Also how come my control surfaces made not the slightest difference to get me out of that dive ? up down left right, nothing at all worked......as I hit the ground the screen just went red


The landing.so I pitched down all was looking PERFECT .

What really surprised me was it was all without accu-sim.

2 is 2000ft per minute. Airspeed for climb.. Below 15000 odd, just use 185 IAS . That is a compromise. Best climb is around 168 but controls are twitchy, angle unpleasant and difference in climb is small.
Above 15000 use 170- 175 IAS. Always use rated climb power (+9, 2850rpm for the IIb if memory serves and the +9 doesn't need the gauge, just use full throttle WITHOUT throwing the red lever) and then adjust nose angle to get speed.... Take the rate that gives you, don't aim for a climb rate.

Nope, just called a Scramble... You will also see Section Scramble, Flight Scramble and Squadron Scramble written, they just refer to the number of aircraft, or, more technically, the size of the formation.

Other Battle of Britain tasks. Really only low level scramble to intercept a convoy raid or something like that... Get off as quick as possible, get to, say, 6000 and get to a coastal location ASAP . Very few standing patrols (go up and patrol Dover at 15000 for one hour). But they did happen. Usually over Convoys at sea. Not so often in the WWI line patrol type of way...RDF (The early British name for Radar) prevented the need for that.

Trim for takeoff is one gauge line nose low of neutral.

Ice different? No, not even in accusim. This is the old Bucket, as Scott calls it. There are only so many effects of each type that can be put into effect in FSX. Hard limited by the program. The Spitfire already uses a full "bucket". There are a lot of other effects that could be added if not for this... Telling how rich the Merlin is running by the colour of the exhaust flames is one that comes to mind. But, simply not possible to add another effect without removing one.. Just how it is....

Above a certain speed in a dive, the controls do not have the authority to pull you out of a dive and the aircraft will actually tuck under and try to roll itself into a ball. The negative g from this is what turned your screen red...blood rushing to your eyes. In the A2A Spitfire this happens around 450mph. So, no, your engine rpm settings wouldn't have changed much if anything.

Alex Henshaw said that he had dived every Spitfire he tested at 450mph. John Romain didn't want to dive the rebuilt P9374 at any more than 405mph....and it took a long time to pull out from 405mph.

Pitch perfect on landing. Yes, in those circumstances it can LOOK perfect but you are not actually moving in the direction you nose is pointing. Part of what makes it dangerous to "dive for the deck"

Accufeel is Accusim Light really and will make all non accusimmed aircraft, including A2A ones without accusimm actually installed much better. I'm glad you like it on the Spitfire and if that makes you enjoy flying more than accusim does/ would, that is what it is all about!

I exchanged letters a few years ago with Eric Brown and we discussed high mach dives in Spits as I had once had a Mustang out to .70. We compared notes.
I can't remember if I sent you a copy of Winkles letter on this. Very interesting stuff and he was a sharp as a tack.
Dudley

[Killratio]

We have discussed Dudley but no, I dont have a copy, love one though!

Darryl

[DHenriques_]

We have discussed Dudley but no, I dont have a copy, love one though!

Darryl

Here ya go !

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8ZDKc ... sp=sharing

[Killratio]

Cheers Dudley,

Much appreciated!


(edit..just read through it.. GREAT. i can't wait to re-read it in detail.)

D

[Killratio]

We have discussed Dudley but no, I dont have a copy, love one though!

Darryl

Here ya go !

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8ZDKc ... sp=sharing

Dudley,

I've had a chance to read in depth. Stunning, thank you. I hadn't thought of bunting to reduce drag, I guess I just have that image of peeling over and down in my head... too many war movies

I must say, upon noticing the good Captain's letterhead... he WAS somewhat of an over achiever, wasn't he

A question, did the Laminar flow make the P-51 more stable in the dive but harder to pull out?

Cheers again.


Darryl