My goodness ! It's not that hard to fly at all !

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DHenriques_
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Re: My goodness ! It's not that hard to fly at all !

Post by DHenriques_ »

Killratio wrote:
DHenriquesA2A wrote:
Killratio wrote:We have discussed Dudley but no, I dont have a copy, love one though!

Darryl
Here ya go !

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8ZDKc ... sp=sharing


Dudley,

I've had a chance to read in depth. Stunning, thank you. I hadn't thought of bunting to reduce drag, I guess I just have that image of peeling over and down in my head... too many war movies :)

I must say, upon noticing the good Captain's letterhead... he WAS somewhat of an over achiever, wasn't he ;)

A question, did the Laminar flow make the P-51 more stable in the dive but harder to pull out?

Cheers again.


Darryl
I never did any formal testing directed to the issue. The Mustang was a handful at .70 with a bit of nose tuck and some "walking stick". Other than that recovery was normal. The prop was getting a bit noisy to be sure.
D

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Killratio
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Re: My goodness ! It's not that hard to fly at all !

Post by Killratio »

Dudley

Cheers again.


Darryl
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Styggron
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Re: My goodness ! It's not that hard to fly at all !

Post by Styggron »

Killratio wrote:
Styggron wrote:
It never liked to climb faster than "2" or 200 feet per minute I gather that would be, the needle shook. My airspeed was not good enough.

So was that fast scramble and climb to 20,000 just called "fast scramble" ? or did it have a proper name ?

Oh one thing re pitch trim.... there must be a proper setting to use here for take off.....suggestions ?


So it was ice? ok. they really need to make it look more like "ice" which looks different. Does it look like fog with accu-sim as well instead of little crystals of ice ?

Dive: Ok so if I had my RPM higher might I have stood a better chance ? I'lll find out I guess. So I should not dive for too long. Also how come my control surfaces made not the slightest difference to get me out of that dive ? up down left right, nothing at all worked......as I hit the ground the screen just went red


The landing.so I pitched down all was looking PERFECT .

What really surprised me was it was all without accu-sim.

2 is 2000ft per minute. Airspeed for climb.. Below 15000 odd, just use 185 IAS . That is a compromise. Best climb is around 168 but controls are twitchy, angle unpleasant and difference in climb is small.
Above 15000 use 170- 175 IAS. Always use rated climb power (+9, 2850rpm for the IIb if memory serves and the +9 doesn't need the gauge, just use full throttle WITHOUT throwing the red lever) and then adjust nose angle to get speed.... Take the rate that gives you, don't aim for a climb rate.

Nope, just called a Scramble... You will also see Section Scramble, Flight Scramble and Squadron Scramble written, they just refer to the number of aircraft, or, more technically, the size of the formation.

Other Battle of Britain tasks. Really only low level scramble to intercept a convoy raid or something like that... Get off as quick as possible, get to, say, 6000 and get to a coastal location ASAP . Very few standing patrols (go up and patrol Dover at 15000 for one hour). But they did happen. Usually over Convoys at sea. Not so often in the WWI line patrol type of way...RDF (The early British name for Radar) prevented the need for that.

Trim for takeoff is one gauge line nose low of neutral.

Ice different? No, not even in accusim. This is the old Bucket, as Scott calls it. There are only so many effects of each type that can be put into effect in FSX. Hard limited by the program. The Spitfire already uses a full "bucket". There are a lot of other effects that could be added if not for this... Telling how rich the Merlin is running by the colour of the exhaust flames is one that comes to mind. But, simply not possible to add another effect without removing one.. Just how it is....

Above a certain speed in a dive, the controls do not have the authority to pull you out of a dive and the aircraft will actually tuck under and try to roll itself into a ball. The negative g from this is what turned your screen red...blood rushing to your eyes. In the A2A Spitfire this happens around 450mph. So, no, your engine rpm settings wouldn't have changed much if anything.

Alex Henshaw said that he had dived every Spitfire he tested at 450mph. John Romain didn't want to dive the rebuilt P9374 at any more than 405mph....and it took a long time to pull out from 405mph.

Pitch perfect on landing. Yes, in those circumstances it can LOOK perfect but you are not actually moving in the direction you nose is pointing. Part of what makes it dangerous to "dive for the deck"

Accufeel is Accusim Light really and will make all non accusimmed aircraft, including A2A ones without accusimm actually installed much better. I'm glad you like it on the Spitfire and if that makes you enjoy flying more than accusim does/ would, that is what it is all about!
2 is 2000 feet per minute and not 200 ? Goodness.
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Killratio
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Re: My goodness ! It's not that hard to fly at all !

Post by Killratio »

Yep, 2000 feet per minute. If you think about it, you did 20,000ft in 13 odd minutes!

High performance is a different world. The highest performance I've ever flown was the Extra 300.

165knots (185 odd mph) in the cruise, 3000 fpm climb and 400, yes, 400 degrees per second roll rate. The fun can not be described. The potential to end up looking foolish, or dead, or both is, of course much greater.....

Keep flying, keep enjoying her mate!

Darryl
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Styggron
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Re: My goodness ! It's not that hard to fly at all !

Post by Styggron »

12minutes 7 seconds. and I have a screenshot :)
My landing was......yeah............bad.

The first few flights I was fine, take off landing no problems. I only started to have landing issues when I tried this scramble procedure then losing altitude fast enough is tricky. :shock: :shock:

This time there was a LOT of smoke. The maintenance hangar reported the broken prop again too. Also even without accu-sim the compression tests all work :)

Also re the trim, umm not sure what you meant by the setting I needed so can you perhaps tell me the % I should set it at for take off ? 10% ? 15% ? 5% ?? I've been using 8% and that seems to be ok.

I turned off accu-feel and wanted to see if I still get the same crash experience. Yep I do. This means it is in the base model and inherant in FSX. I don't experience the side forces and wind sounds without accu-feel though but I still tip over. Interesting. I must confess I am now wondering what the accu-sim experience is. Will the crash feel the same ? Don't know.

Goodness flying at night is hard !! Instruments don't light up. There is just a nice dim red light, can't seem to adjust the brightness, there are two controls but it only seems to do on and off. I couldn't even tell where the light was coming from in the cockpit itself. If course I know it was designed to fly in the war so it had to be dark but I would have thought instruments would have at least been backlit or something.... :D
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Re: My goodness ! It's not that hard to fly at all !

Post by Denny120 »

Killratio wrote: Start next to the runway at Duxford, say just off the end.
Start timer or stop watch.
Start Spitfire manually.
Run at high idle, needle just a width below where the rpm calibration starts
Wait for at least 15 degrees oil temp AND 60 degrees radiator.
Takeoff, turn towards East coast and climb to 20,000 ft.

Post your time.
After reading this thread I'd wondered how long it would take for me to get up there.. :wink:

Flew the Mk IIa with Accusim and made it to 20,000 ft in 10:33 min, however with a tailwind of 11 kts.. She almost boiled over but remained stable at 120 degrees. I wonder, what time was a pilot supposed to get up to 20,000 ft?

Really love the Spitfire and she was my first airplane.. And it's great fun trying the procedures done by pilots back then, such as the scramble. :)

Dennis

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Re: My goodness ! It's not that hard to fly at all !

Post by Killratio »

No backlighting on the instruments, they DID have radium on some of the numbers. Problem with the lighting in the Spitfire is that at night, the exhausts blinded the pilot a fair measure. So not good. The long nose hid the flare path on landing and more than one experienced pilot ended up with a face full of gunsight. If interested, have a look at this:
https://books.google.com.au/books?id=oh ... re&f=false

OK, trim. The trim Gauge has two divisions and two half divisions on BOTH the up and down side PLUS a centre mark. You want to wind the trim NOSE DOWN for takeoff until the gauge needle points to the FIRST mark in the bottom half of the gauge. The gauge is just below the Undercarriage Indicator on the left of panel. When taking off in the Spitfire the important points are:

1. Once the Merlin is started, the Stick stays IN YOUR STOMACH until you reach 60 MPH on the takeoff run.(where the ASI scale starts).
2. Once you start to accelerate beyond that, release the stick progressively and evenly until it returns to neutral. at around 90-100mph That is where the aircraft will take itself off.
3. NEVER push forward on the stick to raise the tail as you have only 7 1/2 inches ground clearance on the Airscrew in flying attitude. That is why nose down trim rather than pushing forward. (it also helps stop some of the pitch up change when the gear is raised.


Difference between ACCU - Feel and Sim

Accufeel is the equivalent of making you think you are in the jungle by making it hot and playing jungle noises at you.

Accusim is making you feel that you are in the jungle by getting today's temperature in PNG, adjusting the room to that, then "planting" digital trees all around you and calculating the amount of moisture that would come from them and the current cloud conditions, after calculating the current pressure altitude you are at, to arrive at the humidity..and spraying an appropriate mist of water into the room whilst simultaneously adjusting the light to the level that would be let in by the "digital trees". Then playing A2A actual sound recordings of the insects and birds which are active in the afternoon within the area you are currently passing through in the sim.

The former makes you feel like you are in "a" jungle. Which is fine if you never have been in a jungle or have been in 100 different ones and don't care which exactly you are supposed to be in now.

Accusim is designed to make you think that you are in "The Jungles" area of PNG, at 4500ft, half way up the Gorge near Kagi on that particularly hot day in June that you remember......

So with Accufeel you get a sense of what it is like to fly in an aircraft of the class you are flying. With Accusim you get feel what it is like to fly THE aircraft you are flying AND have to deal with all of its mechanical and control idiosyncrasies.

That is the best way I can put it, anyway. So make your decision on that kind of basis as to whether Accusim or Accufeel is right for you.

regards

Darryl
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Re: My goodness ! It's not that hard to fly at all !

Post by Killratio »

Dennis,

P.7280 Merlin XII Rotol C.S. 7.0 minutes

N.3171 Merlin III Rotol C.S. 7.7 minutes

K.9787 Merlin II Wood F.P. 9.4 Minutes

So not a bad effort on your part!


(BTW, tailwind has zero effect on climb rate..just on distance covered during climb.)

regards

Darryl
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Re: My goodness ! It's not that hard to fly at all !

Post by Denny120 »

Thank you for your information Darryl :)

7 minutes.. That is pretty fast.. :shock:

Dennis

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Re: My goodness ! It's not that hard to fly at all !

Post by Styggron »

Thank you again Killratio.
I streamed my Scramble attempt on twitch so that is on episode 5 of my series there.I mentioned you in both episode 5 and 6 :)

Yes I totally understand what accu-sim does a and all the modelling, I won't be able to make a final call till I do the Accu-sim test but for me and my opinion, the add on is just too much. Yes I know it is competitively priced, a lot of work went into it etc I totally understand it, each to their own though. Happy with Accu-feel at present.

Only when I put on accu-sim will I be able to make the final call.

I shall continue with the Scramble challenges. I seem to always be stuck on 12 minutes now. :) I shall also check all your information re the trim setting. I need to fly this plane far better. If you check episode 6 I did 2 rather hot landings in that one. I am surprised I did not flip over. I lowered the gear when I was on 160-170 MPS and I lowered the flaps at 150 even though I am not supposed to.....I just made it...... phew :D
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Re: My goodness ! It's not that hard to fly at all !

Post by Killratio »

Good progress Mate,

I've used my allotted spare time on answers until now. I know not of the "Twitch" of which you speak :) :)

I'll find it and have a look today sometime and give some feedback. I'm looking forward to it!

Regards

Darryl
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Jacques
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Re: My goodness ! It's not that hard to fly at all !

Post by Jacques »

Styggron and Darryl, I hope you don't mind the intrusion....but...Stygg, I watched most of episode 5 (very well done!) and, I watched you change a "damaged" 2 bladed prop, in the maintenance hanger... so doesn't that mean you actually DO have Accu-Sim? And you accomlishd a compression check as well? Or was I seeing things while, admittedly under the influence of a couple of very strong ales?! Then, if you do have Accu-Sim, you need to sort out what is wrong with your sound, because you should be deafened by the glorious roar of that RR Merlin!

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Styggron
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Re: My goodness ! It's not that hard to fly at all !

Post by Styggron »

Jacques wrote:Styggron and Darryl, I hope you don't mind the intrusion....but...Stygg, I watched most of episode 5 (very well done!) and, I watched you change a "damaged" 2 bladed prop, in the maintenance hanger... so doesn't that mean you actually DO have Accu-Sim? And you accomlishd a compression check as well? Or was I seeing things while, admittedly under the influence of a couple of very strong ales?! Then, if you do have Accu-Sim, you need to sort out what is wrong with your sound, because you should be deafened by the glorious roar of that RR Merlin!
Hi Jacques :)
No, I don't have accu-sim installed no. I explained this in the video. (Please read the OP so you can see how I am testing :)) The maintenance hangar still works without it.

I can't swap the props but the damage is still there. You can still do the compression test without accu-sim.

Most people have zero idea on the differences from the point that they have not EXPERIENCED the base plane *alone*. No one tests things like that. Everyone gets accu-sim. They get it with accu-sim and hence it is all there as I have said in my previous posts. I am doing these tests to determine if the differences are enough for me to warrant the cost and I shall apply these results to all planes that can be purchased without accu-sim (see previous posts in this OP).

Accu-feel does a sterling job at enhancing. It's enough for me. The best value for money.
So nope. I have no accu-sim on the Spitfire.
Last edited by Styggron on 03 Sep 2016, 22:47, edited 10 times in total.
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Styggron
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Re: My goodness ! It's not that hard to fly at all !

Post by Styggron »

Killratio wrote:Good progress Mate,

I've used my allotted spare time on answers until now. I know not of the "Twitch" of which you speak :) :)

I'll find it and have a look today sometime and give some feedback. I'm looking forward to it!

Regards

Darryl
Twitch is like youtube. :)
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Jacques
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Re: My goodness ! It's not that hard to fly at all !

Post by Jacques »

That's fine, it was only an observation. Since I have no non-accusim aircraft from A2A, I don't necessarily recognize their features. Looks like you're having fun and that is really the main point.

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