The A2A Simulations Community

"Come share your passion for flight"
It is currently Fri Nov 16, 2018 1:30 am

All times are UTC - 5 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 5 posts ] 
Author Message
PostPosted: Sun Feb 15, 2015 5:51 pm 
Offline
Senior Airman

Joined: Sun Dec 26, 2004 5:19 pm
Posts: 165
I've often wondered if the slow Running Cut-Out should have been modelled in the WoP3 Spitfire MK.I, as it represents an early 1940 variant.

Indeed both the highly authentic and meticulously restored MK.Is P7394, and N3200 do not have them, (it's just a case of mags off), and these aircraft are of the same time period that the WoP3 D.H 2 pitch prop MK.I is modeled.

'Spitfire - The History' has a list of mods applicable to the MK.I, but sadly, there is no mention of when the introduction of the slow running cut out was introduced.

However, thanks to Edgar Brooks, I have found out when it was.

Modification 43 "To introduce slow running cut-out control" dates from 30-6-40.

So it would seem that it should not be modelled on the WoP3 either of the WoP3 MK.Is. (All the period pictures I've seen of early MK.Is do not have one).

I also note in the mod list the deletion of flap indicator: -

Mod 215 "Delete flap position indicator" 20-3-40

This ties up with the fact that both P7394 & N3200 do not have one fitted, itself based on evidence from those who have recovered numerous early MK.Is from crash sites over the years. Of course some aircraft could well have retained them by the time of the Battle of France, but it seems they would be the exception, rather than the rule.

(Maybe in a future update, the flap indicator could be either removed or kept depending on preference).

Cheers

Paul


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2015 5:42 am 
Offline
Airman First Class
User avatar

Joined: Sat Mar 13, 2010 4:30 am
Posts: 98
Hi Paul,

I too have noticed this, however, because the Spitfire is recreating a typical Spitfire at a particular date in 1940 some of the earlier aspects of the aeroplane aren't presented. For instance, P9374 and N3200 are both very early war machines with P9374 being completed in early 1940 and delivered in early March to 92 Squadron and was lost on 24 May 1940 over Dunkirk. The A2A Spitfire is representetive of a typical 'pre-Battle of Britain' Spitfire circa Early/Mid June 1940. At this time, the Spitfire I still had the variable pitch DH Propeller. The RAF's Spitfires had not received the DH conversion kit to make them into constant speeding units - something which would become available towards the end of June. Certainly all period surviving Battle of Britain Spitfire I's had constant speeding units fitted by the time of the battle. So in this instance, the slow running cut-out would be present on Spitfires. However, it would not be present on the early Spitfires as represented by the two bladed propeller, BUT, the flap indicator would have been.

As P9374 and N3200 are the only two Spitfire I's I fly from the package, I have 'deleted' the flap gauge in the paint files for the cockpit and simply do not use the slow running cut out.

I would however like to direct you to a discussion I had regarding the DH propeller's characteristics on the A2A Spitfire when compared to the reports written by John Romain regarding the test flying, and in particular the settings of the DH Prop.

viewtopic.php?f=77&t=39392&hilit=correct+coarse+setting

Either way, it's fair to say I love flying this aeroplane and thanks to A2A for reproducing it!

Brad

_________________
A Spitfire arrived around the end of the hangar at near enough 10ft slaloming though the dispersal pylons. He then landed, got out in a waist coat and suit trousers, unfold a suit jacket from the luggage hold and put it on. He was Sqn Ldr Ray Hanna.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2015 8:41 am 
Offline
A2A Lieutenant Colonel
User avatar

Joined: Sat Nov 06, 2004 11:22 pm
Posts: 28311
Location: Beccles, Suffolk, UK
One thing to bear in mind is the context of the time, which is often forgot about during these sort of conversations.

Even taking field mods out of the equation the official red tape was delivered down to Squadron level at a time of utter desperate war, and during this period there was also some movement of squadrons in anticipation for the BOF and BOB, mods and updates where made as and when and often it was more important to have the aircraft combat ready than in a hanger whilst the latest ministry/Higher up changes where being applied. If anything the losses themselves during the period will have helped, as ironic as that is.

A good example of this in action is the mass differences of aircraft liveries during the battle, with some still flying the classic early war black + white undersides well into the Battle of Britain.

thanks,
Lewis

_________________
A2A Facebook for news live to your social media newsfeed
A2A Youtube because a video can say a thousand screenshots,..
A2A Simulations Twitter for news live to your social media newsfeed
A2A Simulations Community Discord for voice/text chat


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2015 1:56 pm 
Offline
Senior Airman

Joined: Sun Dec 26, 2004 5:19 pm
Posts: 165
Brad & Lewis,

All good points and taken in.

(I was always under the impression that the WoP3 MK.I with the D.H pitch prop was modeled on an aircraft from around the the same period as P9374 & N3200, so pre Battle Of Britain).

I've just found out from Edgar that he missed something relating to the slow running cut-out when looking at the mod lists.

mod 118 "To reposition hole in frame 8 for slow-running cut-out introduced by Alt 43," and is dated 17-11-39, which hints at the cut-out having been introduced earlier than the date on the leaflet.

So it would seem that the slow running cut out was planned for earlier than the 30-6-40 introduction date, and as Edgar says, it could well have been introduced earlier than this. But then again, as I said earlier, all the pictures I've seen of early pre BoB MK.I cockpits, don't have one fitted.

Here's what the MK.I Pilots Notes say on the subject: -

Image

Whilst the copy I have is dated May 1940, several pages including this one are amendments to the original, so are from a later date.

All food for thought, and what makes researching these things more interesting, if not fustrating!

Cheers

Paul


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2015 2:01 pm 
Offline
Airman First Class
User avatar

Joined: Sat Mar 13, 2010 4:30 am
Posts: 98
I would assume that the wreckages of both P9374 and N3200 didn't have any evidence of the slow running cut-out fitted, a situation similar to what Lewis describes with the passing down of official orders and mods. Seemingly, at least 92 Squadron's aircraft and P9374 in particular weren't on the ground long enough for many of the more 'technical' mods.

It is also worth noting that the larger components for the early Spitfires probably began life before the cut-out mod was introduced in late 1939. I know, for instance that when the BBMF Spitfire IIa was at Duxford for a Major +, the spars were removed and inspected, they were found to be dated pre-1940 (1939 if memory serves). And that particular Spitfire first flew and was introduced into service in August 1940.

Cheers,
Brad


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

_________________
A Spitfire arrived around the end of the hangar at near enough 10ft slaloming though the dispersal pylons. He then landed, got out in a waist coat and suit trousers, unfold a suit jacket from the luggage hold and put it on. He was Sqn Ldr Ray Hanna.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 5 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 8 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group