Question regarding overheating etc

Forever, Britain's most cherished Crown Jewel
new reply
jinxtsel
Airman
Posts: 22
Joined: 18 Feb 2011, 20:13

Question regarding overheating etc

Post by jinxtsel »

Seems that a lot of people have problems with the engine of this Spit overheating. I had some minor problems myself but managed to avoid overheating bby keeping the reves to around 2200 and the boost needle near the 0 mark, though I am not sure that is the right way. However, on one such flight my engine cut after landing and would not restart, even after I clicked on the AUTOSTART tab in one window.

Can someone explain to me what this AUTOSTART tab does?

Another issue: Having read much on the Spitfire, including Wellum's recent book named FIRST LIGHT, plus countless others and articles in many magazines and even the first test pilot's book (forgot his name now), and having seen many videos on the aicraft, inclduing one done on the ATA women pilots--in which they speak about flying the Spitfire, there is no intimation that the aircraft overheated so fast on the ground. In fact, many pilots state that often the plane was left with engine running at idle for close to 30 minutes without any problems. Tuck, Bader, Malan, Jeffrey Quill and even that Royal Navy FAA man who has flown most a/c (forget his name) and had a series titled VIEWED FROM THE COCKPIT, do not say that overheating was a problem and their in-flight descriptions do not show such constant watching out for temperature.

I am therefore wondering if A2A have overdone things here. If they have, perhaps it was to attact more sales, as a friend suggested, but I doubt that myself, Too much zeal perhaps or perhaps a fixation with accusim features??

One cannot transplant the same heart to two men. I believe changes must be made before the accusim module is transferred from one plane to another and closer attention to fidelity is in order. It is a wonderful addon, I will be the first to say that, and worth all its price, but I know at least ten simmers here in Greece, some of them military pilots, who gfot rid of the accusim expansion and reinstalled the simple plane without the accusim addon.

Near me there lives a Greek former Spitfire pilot who flew the later marks, Peter. I will see him tomorrow, I hope, and ask him if the real Spit he flew overheated that easily. I have written many articles in Greek aviation magazines myself but none so far on the Spit, but I can assure you I have read everything published in Air International, Aeroplane, Aircraft Illustrated, Armed Forces, and other such UK magazines, plus many of the books and personal accounts on the Spit--from Jeffrey Quill to Wellum and Pierre Closterman and Beamont and others. I read French also and none of the French magazines (FANA, AIR FAN, AVIONS ETC) mention easy overheating in the Spit.

That said, thanks for a nice addon.

Nick

User avatar
Lewis - A2A
A2A Lieutenant Colonel
Posts: 33284
Joined: 06 Nov 2004, 23:22
Location: Norfolk UK
Contact:

Re: Question regarding overheating etc

Post by Lewis - A2A »

Hello Nick,

the issue is that you are looking at later marks and applying that to our modelled mkI. The overheating was simply becase of what the Spitfires were designed to do. Start up, fly up to altitude, kill bombers, then fly home. The MkI is very much this mindset, and its why with each later mark the cooling solution was improved and changed.

We have modelled the spitfire with input from those with some spit sticktime, with by the book experts and of course with official supermarine/rolls royce period manuals etc.

And if you want any more proof, see Michael Caine in the BOB film :mrgreen: ,...
"We either takeoff or blow up"

(EDIT; this has comeup a few times on the forums, heres a recent forum thread with some nice data in it; http://a2asimulations.com/forum/viewtop ... 77&t=24139)
A2A Facebook for news live to your social media newsfeed
A2A Youtube because a video can say a thousand screenshots,..
A2A Simulations Twitter for news live to your social media newsfeed
A2A Simulations Community Discord for voice/text chat

User avatar
Tigerclaw
Technical Sergeant
Posts: 684
Joined: 31 Jul 2010, 17:55
Location: EGMC

Re: Question regarding overheating etc

Post by Tigerclaw »

I too think you may be looking at the figures of later Mk's. The Mk I only has one tiny radiator, but the later Mk's had two, one on each wing. No doubt the Mk's in between had improvements too, but maybe not so noticeable.
Tony (That's all your getting, like it or lump it)

MSFS i7-7700 Kaby Lake CPU @ 3.60 GHz, 3601 Mhz, 4 Cores (Liquid cooled) Gigabyte B250M-DS3H-CF M/Board 32 Gig DDR4 Ram Nvidia GTX 1080ti 11GB GDDR 5 Win 10 Home Acer Predator XB271HU.

Jigsaw
Master Sergeant
Posts: 1121
Joined: 24 Feb 2008, 09:33
Location: Germany

Re: Question regarding overheating etc

Post by Jigsaw »

jinxtsel wrote:but I know at least ten simmers here in Greece, some of them military pilots, who gfot rid of the accusim expansion and reinstalled the simple plane without the accusim addon.
Hm, that makes me wonder why I, a simple armchair pilot, have no problems at all keeping the aircraft cool at all times, even on hot days, while real pilots do. Maybe they just ought to follow the realistic prodcedures for this aircraft, which doesn't have all the computerized system assistance that they are used to. :D
Last edited by Jigsaw on 19 Feb 2011, 21:24, edited 2 times in total.
Happy Landings
- Patrick
Image

User avatar
Skycat
Senior Master Sergeant
Posts: 2191
Joined: 11 Nov 2006, 16:15
Location: Great Falls Army Air Base, Montana

Re: Question regarding overheating etc

Post by Skycat »

If anybody is looking for a good read, I recommend Spitfires, Thunderbolts and Warm Beer. It is the biography of LeRoy Gover, and American pilot who joined the RAF before the United States entered the war. Coincidently, the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor occurred within days of Gover's arrival in England. Gover became an RAF Spitfire pilot and flew combat missions with the RAF until transferred into the USAAF's 4th Fighter Group in late 1942. Passages from his wartime letters and journal are sprinkled throughout the narrative.

Gover's preparation for Spitfire duty was quick training at an OTU, flying a Spitfire Mk.II. He wrote upon arriving at the training base: "One fellow was killed yesterday. The accident rate is about four in ten in training, and when you watch these Spits come in you don't wonder."

After his second day of OTU, December 18, 1941, Gover wrote: "The first plane I watched land this morning crashed. Then this afternoon, two more crashed. The Spitfires have such a narrow landing gear and land so hot that it's going to be dynamite. We were told that that everyone averages two crack-ups if he lives for the six to eight weeks that he's here--and that's before going on active service with a squadron."

Gover quickly mastered the Spitire. At the end of his training he reflected on what he had learned about the plane, including:

"In many ways, the toughest part of flying the Spitfire was moving around on the ground. Because of the big engine out in front of you, you had to turn slightly to the right and to the left so you could see what was in front of you. Fortunately, we never had to taxi very far, because most of the fields were grass and we could just point into the wind and be ready to take off. Besides, you couldn't taxi very long, since the engine would begin to overheat from having so little air flowing through the radiators. The narrow undercarriage added to the challenge, especially on landing. It really wasn't hard to control the plane on the ground, you just had to be careful."

Gover flew Mk.V and Mk. IX Spitfires and later P-47Cs and -Ds in combat.
Pax Orbis Per Arma Aeria

User avatar
Killratio
A2A Spitfire Crew Chief
Posts: 5785
Joined: 29 Jul 2008, 23:41
Location: The South West of the large island off the north coast of Tasmania
Contact:

Re: Question regarding overheating etc

Post by Killratio »

Nice post!! I haven't read that book but will chase it up.

One only has to seek references from people who flew the BABY SPITFIRES to immediately find reference to on ground overheating.

Unfortunately people look at a "Spitfire" with very little distinction between marques.

jinxtsel, I suggest your Greek friends read my radiator tutorial, reinstall Accu-sim and fly the Spitfire as it was flown in 1940.


Darryl
<Sent from my 1988 Sony Walkman with Dolby Noise Reduction and 24" earphone cord extension>


Image

User avatar
markwlee
Senior Airman
Posts: 215
Joined: 06 Sep 2005, 15:59

Re: Question regarding overheating etc

Post by markwlee »

Anyone other than Greece's 10 simmers who've uninstalled Accusim?
Overheating isn't much of a problem for me any more. Accusim stays!

*note the American was still having overheating problems with "radiators" not just a radiator.

User avatar
JoeS475
Senior Master Sergeant
Posts: 1919
Joined: 30 Jan 2011, 15:39
Location: Northern New Jersey

Re: Question regarding overheating etc

Post by JoeS475 »

Learn to fly the portrayed aircraft (1940), correctly and all will be well. I've had relatively few overheating issues since the first 2 days of flying my Spit, and those that I have now are due to wear and tear.

And who is planning on idling their A2A Spitfire on the ground for 30 minutes? Any restored example would be based and displayed at airfields where that is not going to happen.

Joe
Joe

User avatar
Norforce
Senior Master Sergeant
Posts: 1894
Joined: 09 Apr 2010, 17:14
Location: Geraldton, Western Australia

Re: Question regarding overheating etc

Post by Norforce »

Accusim removed because they found it hard to fly maybe
Different to jumping into FSX and pushing the throttle full on and not worrying about the engine or mechanics of the plane
Ron
B-17 AIRFRAME 710 HRS PLUS AND CLIMBING
ImageImageImageImage


Image
GIGABYTE X58A-UD5 MB, INTEL I7 950, 12GB DOMINATOR-GT DDR3 RAM, WIN7 64, GIGABYTE SUPER OVER CLOCK GTX 560 TI 1GB GGDDR5 1000Mz, CORSAIR 850W PS, NOCTUA NH-D14,
TRACKIR 5 & TrackClipPro

Jigsaw
Master Sergeant
Posts: 1121
Joined: 24 Feb 2008, 09:33
Location: Germany

Re: Question regarding overheating etc

Post by Jigsaw »

But why did the buy the Accu-sim package in the first place? I don't get it.

"Hm... I don't like to follow procedures, flying an aircraft like the real thing and dealing with possible problems. Let's buy the module that requires me to do all that". :roll: :lol:
Happy Landings
- Patrick
Image

jinxtsel
Airman
Posts: 22
Joined: 18 Feb 2011, 20:13

Re: Question regarding overheating etc

Post by jinxtsel »

:D Some references I checked say that the early Mark overheated. Others do not mention that problem.

I also know a few people in England who reinstalled it without the accusim addon. Barrie, one of them, was disappointed you could not change the props once that accusim is not there. He also wonders why A2A could not keep the change-prop function for the non-accusim one, or even give another version for the other prop types. Barrie is touch with Lewis, according to emails I get from him.

I have been lucky so far in the sense that I did not get the bonfires others get. Yesterday I flew it to 21,000 feet from O'Hare to Gary and beyond and on the way back to O'Hare my pilot got hypoxiated and his head bent over downwards. Initially I did not know it was hypoxia so I paused the sim and reread the relevant part in the manua. The cockpit was also darkened, though I could distinguish the instruments. I dived some way, levelled out and tried to lower flaps and gear--not possible. Lower down still the pilot revived and the cockpit came back from darkened to normal and I was able to lower flaps and gear. I thought all that was a nice touch and A2A must be congratulated. I landed in the fields though, a rough landing, and the engine cut and I got the broken prop. That was because I was looking at the instruments and could not see out. The answer of course is to open an inner small window and have a 2nd view, outside view, minimised.

If one change the prop type without the accusim on, how does one do it?

Another great candidate for A2A to do in the future is the Hawker Typhoon. The early marks had engine fires and and the rear tail broke off at times--they had bolted reinforcement plates around that bulkhead--near the sky band at the rear. I would not mind having a Typhoon with such accusim features built in it. Profile 81, which one can download at the net , shows a colour profile (Profile Publications no.81, Hawker Typhoon, text by F.K Mason) that is wonderful. It is a Typhoon Ib of 198 Sqn.
On the radiator fairing starboard site, the following words had been painted:
"IF THIS ENGINE CATCHES FIRE ON STARTING, DON'T JUST WAVE YOUR ARMS AT THE PILOT--TRY PUTTING THE BLOODY THING OUT AS WELL.

On the port side of the rear fuselage, you have the inscription: IF FATE DECREES THAT I SHOULD FAIL, THEN FATE WILL NOT HAVE WATCHED MY TAIL. The a/c features a wonderful Tiger design on the stb nose side and tank ills on the port nose side, is coded TP-F, serialled RB222. It flew in the tank-busting ops in the Falaise gap in Aug. '44.

How about it, dear A2A? I would buy that just for the colours, I think, and for the inscriptions. If fires started, I would try to put them out. (make a man with a fire extinguisher, perhaps?).

Nick

new reply

Return to “Spitfire MkI/II”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 12 guests