A few requests for the future update

[Levkovvvv]

First of all,I am really satisfied with the spitfire as it is,but a few things bother me,some realisam and others estetics related.

estetics

Please add the crowbar back in the door,how many pollys could it take?It really adds to the looks of spitfire cockpit.WOP2 spit had it,why remove it.

realisam

The infamous emergency gear lowering system.Being a rivet counter,i noticed some things that are not historically accurate.

No1 the travel of the emergency lever is 180 degrees,not 90 as you guys made it.It takes 100 degrees to pierce the seal of the cylinder,and than it rotates fully down.

No2 Once the emergency cylinder is discharged,the lever CAN'T be returned to normal until a new cylinder is fitted.

No3 Should the emergency lever be pulled with undercarriage selector in up position,the undercarriage CAN'T be lowered until hydraulic lines going from the cylinder are broken,

These are quotes from original manuals

MKII manual

http://www.zenoswarbirdvideos.com/Image ... Manual.pdf

page 6 and


Later marks manuals IX XI XVI


http://www.zenoswarbirdvideos.com/Image ... MANUAL.pdf

page 23

I hope these get fixed in the service pack and (please) the crowbar be added


One question not related to previous issues,in the last few days,i went through 6-7 sets of main bearings,what am i doing wrong?

Vladimir

[ICDP]

I can't vouch for the other issues you presented but the crowbar was not a feature of the Mk I and Mk II Spitfires of 1940-1941. It may have been added at a much later date as a mod but the crowbar did not appear until the Mk V.

[Levkovvvv]

Page 12 of the mk2 manual (first link) mate,under Emergency equipment,hood jettisoning,use of a crowbar is mentioned.It says that some of them had hood jettison levers and others had crowbars.


Vladimir

[ICDP]

You are correct but this crowbar was kept behind the seat in a position not easily reached. It is not there on our model as it would be a waste of polygons drawing it

The crowbar was not fitted before February, 1941, when it was fitted by units in the field behind, and to the right of, the seat where it can't be seen. It was factory fitted from January 1942 on newly built Spitfires, so that rules out any Mk I or Mk II Spitfires getting the factory fitted door crowbar. Any WWII era photos of Mk I or Mk II Spitfires will not show the crowbar on the door before 1942.

I could post images but that would ruin the fun for you looking them up

[Levkovvvv]

Thanks for the feedback,i really didn't know that,i just missed the big red crowbar in the door frame (guess i played too much Half Life ) I just hope to hear from someone about the landing gear system as fast as i did from you about the crowbar.

Vladimir

[CodyValkyrie]

One question not related to previous issues,in the last few days,i went through 6-7 sets of main bearings,what am i doing wrong?

Vladimir

Regarding the crowbar, that was actually a matter of contention during the beta. It is now as Martin says correct.

About your main bearings, they tend to wear down especially fast if you do not use a controlled dive. Throttling back and using a low RPM, causing the air to drive the prop is one way to wear them out rather fast.

[Levkovvvv]

Ahh,so there is my problem.I am used to setting the rpm to the low limit for the dives to keep the speed down:) Accusim always teaches us new things....

[Killratio]

Ok,

The crow bar is sorted ...now to the rest of your queries...firstly, you need to understand that the later manuals are of NO use for a Spitfire Mk I. In fact even most Spitfire experts have never seen a Mk I manual. This is because it was only discovered at the PRO (sorry Natianal Archives, showing my age) a little while back...so to your points;

1. Crowbar..sorted, and a very common mistaken belief.

2. The Emergency undercarriage lowering is 100 degrees of travel to break the cylinder. It must be pushed through this movement ie the 100 degrees. Any further than this and you take out your knuckles on the piping ..have a look in the cockpit of the Spitfire at your nearest museum...that is what I did. As far as modelling goes inside the cockpit, 90 and 100 degrees are interchangable. LATER modes moved the gas line to behind the unit instead of in front I believe.

3. You say that the lever CAN'T be returned to its up position...this is incorrect. The PROCEDURE is not to do so...simply to mitigate against the cylinder being used and accidentally being left in the aircraft without being changed out for a new one. A simple valve tap with a needle trigger does not have any way of "locking" open. Re-read your manual in this light.

4. The Undercarrige lever in the Mk II and the Undercarriage Pump Valve Lever in the Mk II MUST be in the down position before the cylinder is used or the undercarriage WILL NOT lower AND it is a one shot, 90 gram system. The cylinder gas does not break any hydraulic lines...what it does is direct a burst of CO2 at high pressure into a non return valve near the top of each strut, into the "jack". The reason the controls must be in LOWER (Mk I) and DOWN (Mk II) is that if you fail to do so, the locking pins are NOT removed from the under carriage struts and the wheels simply will not go anywhere.

The "break the line" reference is to where the cylinder has been accidentally discharged with the U/C lever in UP. In this case the line must be physically broken to relieve pressure.

This leads to a problem in the Mk I in particular because IF the hydraulic hand pump (Mk I )or engine pump (Mk II) has failed, then the u'c struts are probably going to be sitting hard on the pins and this makes it very hard to physically operate the levers to withdraw the pins.

And in closing, the cylinder CAN be operated at any time regardless of the state of the aircraft's hydraulic lines...simply because it is a separate part of the system. This is exactly WHY it is wire locked with copper "sheer wire".

I trust that answers all your concerns. If not, please ask.

Darryl

Oh, and if you are a true rivet counter, then you will know already just how many rivets difference there was between individual Spitfires of the SAME marque and time....Supermarine had a 1" 'fudge factor' on all its drawings!!!

[Levkovvvv]

2. The Emergency undercarriage lowering is 100 degrees of travel to break the cylinder. It must be pushed through this movement ie the 100 degrees. Any further than this and you take out your knuckles on the piping ..have a look in the cockpit of the Spitfire at your nearest museum...that is what I did. As far as modelling goes inside the cockpit, 90 and 100 degrees are interchangable. LATER modes moved the gas line to behind the unit instead of in front I believe.

The manual says ''The angular travel of the emergency lever is about 100* for puncturing the seal of the cylinder and then releasing the piercing plunger;it must be pushed through this movement and allowed to swing downwards.'' I understand this as lever being forcefully pushed through 100* and then gravity swinging to full down 180*.I might be wrong,but that is how I understand it.As for going to my local museum,we have a mark Vc,the only one in the world,but not the early marks.

3. You say that the lever CAN'T be returned to its up position...this is incorrect. The PROCEDURE is not to do so...simply to mitigate against the cylinder being used and accidentally being left in the aircraft without being changed out for a new one. A simple valve tap with a needle trigger does not have any way of "locking" open. Re-read your manual in this light.

Misunderstanding,the manual says ''NO attempt should be made to return it to its original position until the cylinder is being replaced''.I expected that it wasn't PHYSICALLY possible to do it,i just expected for it to stay down until i visit the maintenance hangar,but you explained it well,i withdraw.

4. The Undercarrige lever in the Mk II and the Undercarriage Pump Valve Lever in the Mk II MUST be in the down position before the cylinder is used or the undercarriage WILL NOT lower AND it is a one shot, 90 gram system. The cylinder gas does not break any hydraulic lines...what it does is direct a burst of CO2 at high pressure into a non return valve near the top of each strut, into the "jack". The reason the controls must be in LOWER (Mk I) and DOWN (Mk II) is that if you fail to do so, the locking pins are NOT removed from the under carriage struts and the wheels simply will not go anywhere.

The "break the line" reference is to where the cylinder has been accidentally discharged with the U/C lever in UP. In this case the line must be physically broken to relieve pressure.

That is exactly what i meant.I tried discharging the emergency cylinder with gear up and than moving the gear lever down,the gear went down normally.That shouldn't be the case.I didn't mean that the CYLINDER ITSELF breaks any hydraulic lines.

firstly, you need to understand that the later manuals are of NO use for a Spitfire Mk I

I know that,I just posted the later manual because it explicitly mentions the use of the crowbar for breaking the hydraulic lines.

And yes,the crowbar is probably a common mistaken belief because it is a really recognizable touch in the later mark cockpits,and some of us,like i previously mentioned,played a bit too much Half Life

Thank you for your detailed response.

Vladimir

[Killratio]

I understand this as lever being forcefully pushed through 100* and then gravity swinging to full down 180*.I might be wrong,but that is how I understand it.

Thank you for your detailed response.

Vladimir

Very simple mechanism..the lever pushes a needle up and through the sealing on the cylinder. At that point there is no way that the lever could fall further "under gravity" as the lever is against the needle assembly and that has stopped at 100deg travel. The cam is hard up against the needle base.
If the top part no longer moves, then the lever can not move either. There is also a certain tension in the arm travel to prevent accidental use.

best regards,


Darryl

[Levkovvvv]

Very simple mechanism..the lever pushes a needle up and through the sealing on the cylinder. At that point there is no way that the lever could fall further "under gravity" as the lever is against the needle assembly and that has stopped at 100deg travel. The cam is hard up against the needle base.
If the top part no longer moves, then the lever can not move either. There is also a certain tension in the arm travel to prevent accidental use.

Ok,that is sorted now but still leaves the question of why is it possible to lower gear with cylinder discharged while lever in up position.Also off the current matter,how is the cylinder on later models different,since the late models manual clearly states pushing the lever 180 degrees.


Vladimir