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 Post subject: How do I land better?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 30, 2014 1:16 pm 
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I've been spending hours upon days trying to perfect my landings with my A2A Cherokee 180, I've gotten my approach a bit better, I keep the approach speed at 85mph and keep the descent rate at 500 ft per min. Out of all these rough landings I've only managed to get one landing where I heard the back tires squeak correctly when I landed, I don't even know how I got that to happen! I'm struggling and quickly getting fustrated and hopeless to make my landings better, the number one problem I'm having is, the plane floats above the runway and if I cut to idle power the plane will quickly lose speed and the back tires will hit the runway harder resulting in the tires not squeaking, but it wears out my brakes like crazy..Please, I really need some advice and help. I've been trying and trying to get the landings right even after hours of practice... :cry:


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 30, 2014 6:20 pm 
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That squeak is from the tire going from stationary to spinning in a nanosecond and momentarily losing traction, not an indicator of a good landing.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 31, 2014 12:55 pm 
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The problem is, when I land, I just hear the wheels roll, not that sound the tires make when you "kiss" the runway, and the result of my landings cause the brakes to get worn out fast and I can't fix them in the hanger until days after. I really don't know what I'm doing wrong.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 31, 2014 12:58 pm 
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Are you attempting to land on the runway at 85mph? If so that is way too fast and you need to get comfortable allowing the airplane down and holding it off the runway while only a foot off the surface until the airplane settles down in the proper landing attitude and at minimum airspeed.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 31, 2014 10:49 pm 
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I approach at 85mph then when I am above the runway I cut back the power to 65 and level it out, the airspeed does start to go down and the tires hit the runway roughly, that's what is happening, If you need a detailed examination I can video capture my landing process.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 31, 2014 11:50 pm 
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Let it also be known that I am not a seasoned pilot, while I have spent years as a child on the flight simulator I haven't taken lessons, but I do plan on it


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 02, 2015 9:32 pm 
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85 mph is a fast approach - try it at 75 and see what happens.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 03, 2015 6:27 am 
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brandokid25 wrote:
The problem is, when I land, I just hear the wheels roll, not that sound the tires make when you "kiss" the runway, and the result of my landings cause the brakes to get worn out fast and I can't fix them in the hanger until days after. I really don't know what I'm doing wrong.

The culprit here could be inadvertent application of the brakes. If you use rudder pedals, it's worth checking the toe brake axis calibration to make sure the toe brakes aren't slightly depressed. There's some more advice from Lewis on this matter in this thread. Of course, landing with the parking brake applied would have a similar effect! :wink:

As the other posters have noted, it does sound like you're making your final approach a little fast as well. There some good advice specific to landing the Cherokee here: Flaring the 180.

As you mentioned, posting a video of your landing technique would probably be the best way to gain feedback. (provided the cockpit instruments are visible). It's also quite instructive to watch back a video of your own flying...

All the best,
Nick


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 03, 2015 5:26 pm 
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Nick M wrote:
brandokid25 wrote:
The problem is, when I land, I just hear the wheels roll, not that sound the tires make when you "kiss" the runway, and the result of my landings cause the brakes to get worn out fast and I can't fix them in the hanger until days after. I really don't know what I'm doing wrong.

The culprit here could be inadvertent application of the brakes. If you use rudder pedals, it's worth checking the toe brake axis calibration to make sure the toe brakes aren't slightly depressed. There's some more advice from Lewis on this matter in this thread. Of course, landing with the parking brake applied would have a similar effect! :wink:

As the other posters have noted, it does sound like you're making your final approach a little fast as well. There some good advice specific to landing the Cherokee here: Flaring the 180.

As you mentioned, posting a video of your landing technique would probably be the best way to gain feedback. (provided the cockpit instruments are visible). It's also quite instructive to watch back a video of your own flying...

All the best,
Nick





Thanks for the advice Nick! I'll get to that soon :)


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 03, 2015 5:54 pm 
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Teaching someone how to land is tricky business, the only thing I can offer is a procedure, the actual art is something that you will be able to figure out by practicing it and developing a feel for it. Floating down the runway is a by-product of having too much airspeed on final. Most of my time is in Warrior III's which is very similar to the 180 with the exception of the powerplant and the wing, maybe some other minute differences. What I teach is to fly the pattern 90/80/70 which means 90kts on downwind, 80kts on base, 70kts on final. When I'm abeam the touchdown point, bring the power back to 1700rpm and pitch for 90kts until you turn base. Fly across the runway threshold at 65-70kts and then bring the power to idle. Descend to about 5' above the runway and then keep adding back pressure (while holding your altitude above the runway) until the stall horn goes off. By then, you should be in a nose-high attitude and descending those final few feet onto the runway surface landing on the mains. It takes practice and even after 1000hrs, I don't believe I've had a perfect landing yet, though I'd like to think I've had plenty of good ones. I would highly suggest anyone on here who wants to take flying seriously to download this for free from the FAA: https://www.faa.gov/regulations_policie ... 083-3B.pdf


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 09, 2015 9:21 pm 
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I haven't gotten around to uploading a video or anything lately since I said I would do it, I've actually been preparing to start my actual flying lessons starting this Sunday. But I will get around to uploading a video showing how my landings go. Apologies for the delay!


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 09, 2015 9:22 pm 
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sprebound wrote:
Teaching someone how to land is tricky business, the only thing I can offer is a procedure, the actual art is something that you will be able to figure out by practicing it and developing a feel for it. Floating down the runway is a by-product of having too much airspeed on final. Most of my time is in Warrior III's which is very similar to the 180 with the exception of the powerplant and the wing, maybe some other minute differences. What I teach is to fly the pattern 90/80/70 which means 90kts on downwind, 80kts on base, 70kts on final. When I'm abeam the touchdown point, bring the power back to 1700rpm and pitch for 90kts until you turn base. Fly across the runway threshold at 65-70kts and then bring the power to idle. Descend to about 5' above the runway and then keep adding back pressure (while holding your altitude above the runway) until the stall horn goes off. By then, you should be in a nose-high attitude and descending those final few feet onto the runway surface landing on the mains. It takes practice and even after 1000hrs, I don't believe I've had a perfect landing yet, though I'd like to think I've had plenty of good ones. I would highly suggest anyone on here who wants to take flying seriously to download this for free from the FAA: https://www.faa.gov/regulations_policie ... 083-3B.pdf



Thank you!


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 15, 2015 3:18 pm 
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Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2015 4:37 pm
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Hi guys,

I made a video a little while back about my landing techniques in the A2A Cherokee if anyone was interested :-)



Many thanks,
Rich


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 21, 2015 11:07 am 
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Location: Netherlands
Hey Brandokid,

Sprebound has valuable points here's mine I hope I will not confuse you (well there are many ways to Rome...)

Landings will never get you bored well at least not me!! And for sure: last words are not being said here.
Some tips from real life. On approach and final, monitoring your speed is paramount. My instructor got real pissy if I undershot my speed at final (and I'm glad he was!! Comes a windgust you end up dead).
I never look at my vertical speed; ignore it, its not important for VFR flight. What's important you get your aircraft setup well on downwind that means you are trimmed properly with flaps set notch 1. Biggie!!Get your plane stable. Do your homework. I'm not familiar with the Cessna 185 but I guess a speed of 80k is what you are targeting at (that's 5k less than you use on your approach...).
On downwind with the treshold in sight 45 degrees over the shoulder (actually we use landmarks) we cut to 1500 RPM this is for most aircraft the targeted rpm (depending on air quality/wind 100-200 rpm +/-).
Hold the nose up and target for final speed (mentioned in the handbook) which I guess will be around 70k. On base another flap set and pushing/pulling the nose to get that speed constant at 70k. We don't trim anymore now because if you got things set right on downwind you good to go. Same on final.
Than...
If speeds are okay and altitude looks okay than about crossing the treshold

First: You pull the nose and get the aircraft in a horizontal attitude
Second: If things look okay cut the throttle and hold the nose up. In real life I deliberately pull the yoke to feel what the aircraft needs and, as speed decreases, I will adjust my force on the yoke so to ensure the aircraft remains "quite" and "stable". I can assure you that this phase of flight gets me the most "Focused" ! (air is unpredictable but you gotta react)
You never want to exert abrupt forces on landings: you will pay for it. I always tell myself: treat her as a woman, that is: always in a gentle way :)

Succes,

Corkscrew

p.s. you see flying the circuit is a way of setting up things right. If you are not set on downwind mistakes will add up
reminder: Altitude is throttle/speed is yoke (if you don't you will very quickly run away from targeted speeds/attitude)

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2015 6:15 pm 
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Flightsim481 wrote:
Hi guys,

I made a video a little while back about my landing techniques in the A2A Cherokee if anyone was interested :-)



Many thanks,
Rich


Rich,
Thanks for uploading this!
I have watched a fair few videos on landing but I have learned more from this than all of the others put together! Great Work :D
I've just been doing some circuits at Kiddlington, UK (beautiful Oxfordshire countryside with the ORBX England scenery) and pulled off some nice landings. I even managed to use that technique of using rudder & yaw to bring the plane over some trees before the rwy.
My landings weren't perfect but much better than my previous attempts.
I really appreciate your time and effort to make the video. It has dramatically increased the pleasure that I get from flying my C172.
Best wishes
Andrew

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