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PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2016 7:57 pm 
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Styggron wrote:
I looked at the KIND map, I see no OM,MM,IM markers on there

Sorry... the FSX Map. Check there.

Styggron wrote:
I looked at the Gen 2.3 sumbol Great Ozzie told me to see what is labelled as the OMI but found nothing :(

I suggested that in your Approach charts question thread as something that might be useful for chart questions. I don't know if beacons are charted in the UK like they are in the U.S.

Have a look at Wiki's Marker Beacon page. You can listen to what each marker beacon sounds like. That is "fixed" i.e. that can't be changed (if that is what you were asking in your above question #3).

Styggron wrote:
PS Great Ozzie. I spent a bit of time on the 726 document, reading the section you suggested. I still found it difficult I fear. I need easier more to the point succinct direct steps I fear :) Good background info though.

If you have trouble with any of the AIM (like 1-1-9 "f" - Marker Beacon) just post the question. The link you posted ( http://www.navfltsm.addr.com/ils.htm), Wiki etc. will use the AIM as a source (or it should :P).

Another good source: have a look at the FAA's "Instrument Flying Handbook" and search the term "marker beacon". You can find that handbook at the FAA's Aviation Handbooks & Manuals page.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 04, 2016 3:47 am 
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Well if OMI are not shown on UK charts, then I guess I'll never see them working because I will never know if an airport has them.
All I need to know is
*which UK airports have OMI and how can I tell from the map if it has else how can anyone know ?

I really just wanted to see the OMI lights work as I have NEVER ever seen them work. I tend not to use the map in FSX because it messes up all the textures when return to the sim after looking at the map. :shock:

I was hoping I can look at a UK chart and see if it has OMI. I tried more random charts, nothing on OMI.
Does no one even use them anymore is this why ?

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 04, 2016 10:17 am 
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I'm not sure if they are even included to all the charts these days or simply not used anymore. There may be differences among the countries. The easiest way to check if your sim has them around is to use the simulator map function. Click around and make sure the markers' visibility is enabled!

Great Ozzie wrote:
I've just seen this in NCA (how I hope it is not worse than this!). And it seems like they just added all beacons (OM/MM/IM/BC) to essentially all runways. I noticed some military fields escaped this treatment. Doesn't look like any database was used at all. :roll:
At least SAK, PNW and few others, NCA included, are affected. I think at least CRM and/or NRM were not plagued by the marker issue. I think the NOR was too, but I haven't flown too much in Europe in the sim to recall positively.

As you say, the markers apparently are just auto-created all over, without using any database. In FSX, they are apparently linked to the runway (not to ILS or LOC - making much sense actually!), so a runway without any ILS can have them. The runway/terminal navaid data seems to match the FSX default database more or less: this adds to the problem, as there are several airports which have since changed their runway designations (Anchorage comes immediately to mind) and others some have altered their ILSes, markers ( :roll: ) and frequencies.

-Esa

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 04, 2016 2:47 pm 
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Ok well, by the looks of it. There is nothing I can do to check which FSX UK airports has the OMI so it explains why I have never seen them.

Looks like I won't be using them.

As I mentioned I avoid using the map as it pauses the sims and sometimes the sim returns with textures all displaced and you can't see anything.

Thank you for your input everyone.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 04, 2016 5:41 pm 
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Styggron wrote:
Well if OMI are not shown on UK charts, then I guess I'll never see them working because I will never know if an airport has them.
All I need to know is
*which UK airports have OMI and how can I tell from the map if it has else how can anyone know ?
For sure marker beacons are shown on UK approach plates. Here's one for Exeter (EGTE) for example showing the LOM and MM. As Oracle mentions, a lens shaped symbol is used on charts (and on the FSX maps too).

And yeah, don't you guys get me started on Orbx and the plague of marker beacons that they've unleashed on our flight sims! :roll: I can't quite figure out the system that they use; some airports in the guilty terrain regions aren't affected but others seem to be 'upgraded' with a full compliment of beacons. Perhaps their algorithm checks if an approach has any marker beacons in the default nav database, and if it does it automatically works out positions for and creates all possible beacons on that approach. The Orbx lot certainly weren't very forthcoming or helpful on the matter, so who knows! :mrgreen:

Cheers,
Nick


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 04, 2016 6:18 pm 
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Hi Styggron, I don't think Inverness or Edinburgh have marker beacons on either end of any of their ILS capable runways.

To bring up the FSX map: from the main menu mouse to "World". Clicking on World brings up a dropdown menu, then select "Map". This gives you a map view of your present location. If you start at Inverness and look at the map view in FSX, then move across the map Northeast to Kinloss AB. Center Kinloss in the map, and zoom in. On the RWY 26 side you should see a pink oval or eye-shaped object labeled "MM". Another one further out labeled "OM". Those are the Outer marker and Middle marker for RWY 26.

As far as aiding you in lining up for the runway, on your trips North to Inverness, you cane tune the High Altitude VOR located at inverness at 109.20, which you can find in FSX as described above, or on the 377 shift+ 5 map, ensuring the VOR box is selected. Tune that VOR and set the adjustable double needle of the Compass Repeater to 235 (which is the actual heading of the runway, also picked from the FSX map). Its good practice regardless because an ILS landing requires you not only follow a heading, but follow a descent path. If nothing else, it takes the guess work out of finding the airport.

On the Edinburgh side, I think you have an NDB to guide you to the airport.

Sorry, this was longer than intended!


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2016 1:12 am 
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Nick M wrote:
For sure marker beacons are shown on UK approach plates. Here's one for Exeter (EGTE) for example showing the LOM and MM. As Oracle mentions, a lens shaped symbol is used on charts (and on the FSX maps too).
Nice find, these turn out to be the only pair of markers in UK as per the current AIRAC.

-Esa

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Engineers see things as they could be and ask, Why not?
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2016 2:17 am 
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AKar wrote:
Nick M wrote:
For sure marker beacons are shown on UK approach plates. Here's one for Exeter (EGTE) for example showing the LOM and MM. As Oracle mentions, a lens shaped symbol is used on charts (and on the FSX maps too).
Nice find, these turn out to be the only pair of markers in UK as per the current AIRAC.

-Esa


The only airport n the UK with markers :D

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2016 2:18 am 
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Jacques wrote:
Hi Styggron, I don't think Inverness or Edinburgh have marker beacons on either end of any of their ILS capable runways.

To bring up the FSX map: from the main menu mouse to "World". Clicking on World brings up a dropdown menu, then select "Map". This gives you a map view of your present location. If you start at Inverness and look at the map view in FSX, then move across the map Northeast to Kinloss AB. Center Kinloss in the map, and zoom in. On the RWY 26 side you should see a pink oval or eye-shaped object labeled "MM". Another one further out labeled "OM". Those are the Outer marker and Middle marker for RWY 26.

As far as aiding you in lining up for the runway, on your trips North to Inverness, you cane tune the High Altitude VOR located at inverness at 109.20, which you can find in FSX as described above, or on the 377 shift+ 5 map, ensuring the VOR box is selected. Tune that VOR and set the adjustable double needle of the Compass Repeater to 235 (which is the actual heading of the runway, also picked from the FSX map). Its good practice regardless because an ILS landing requires you not only follow a heading, but follow a descent path. If nothing else, it takes the guess work out of finding the airport.

On the Edinburgh side, I think you have an NDB to guide you to the airport.

Sorry, this was longer than intended!


Thank you Jacques. :) :) :) I avoid using the FSX map as I wrote previously because it freezes the sim and when I return most of the time all textures are broken and graphics garbled..........A2A maps are fine just the FSX one sometimes causes issues.

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Aircraft Factory Avro Anson, Albatros DIII,Heinkel He-219, F4U Corsair, P51H Mustang, Avro 504
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2016 4:45 pm 
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AKar wrote:
Nick M wrote:
For sure marker beacons are shown on UK approach plates. Here's one for Exeter (EGTE) for example showing the LOM and MM. As Oracle mentions, a lens shaped symbol is used on charts (and on the FSX maps too).
Nice find, these turn out to be the only pair of markers in UK as per the current AIRAC.
Do they really? :shock: It's a complete fluke that I happened to post a link for EGTE rwy 26 approach chart. I chose it simply because I used this approach to practice my ILS skills a little while ago and remembered hearing the marker beacon tones.

However, I just had a look at my fairly new copy of P3D (i.e. no navaid update performed yet) and most of the military airbases in the UK are still equipped with OM's and MM's in the default install. Evidently marker beacon have been decommissioned en masse in the last decade or so by the MOD, but there should still be plenty in the default FSX UK scenery Styggron.

For what it's worth, the Orbx England scenery doesn't seem to tamper with the marker beacons, but their Scotland region adds an unlikely plethora of OM's, MM's, IM's and BC's at many of the larger airports. :roll:

Nick

P.S. On an unrelated note, what the hell have LM done to the in-flight map in P3D to make it so slow to pan and zoom compared to its FSX countertpart? :evil:


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