Controlled Airspace

[bullfox]

I am still navigating by following the flight plan GPS red line. Recently discovered that you can put kinks i.e. way points in the red line to go around controlled airspace. Nevertheless, I am wondering two things. In the Garmen 400 the controlled air spaces appear in different colors. What do the different colors mean? Also in VFR if I initiate flight following can I then cross through the controlled air spaces? Basically what I am asking is how to deal most realisticly with controlled air space in FSX?

[Great Ozzie]

Alright Steve,

Not a quick answer on this one. Two downloads that will help you make sense of this topic...

From faa.gov the Pilot's Handbook of Aeronautical Knowledge. Good to download the whole thing... or you can just grab Chapter 14 "Airspace".

Also, a download from AOPA's Safety Advisors, you want the one entitled "Airspace for Everyone".

Those two should help you start to make sense of what you are seeing on the GPS. If you could give specific questions of what you mean, that would help and I'll try to answer.

Btw, here's a great article on AVweb The Whys and Hows of VFR Flight Following. I liked using it when VFR because it gave me an extra set of eyeballs for traffic (based on how busy the controller was). And I was on somebody's frequency; if something went wrong during the flight, bang, I have someone I am already talking to that could provide me assistance.

-Rob

[flaminghotsauce]

If you're flying on an Instrument Flight plan, then yes, you can fly directly through the controlled airspace because you're already cleared through it.

More complicated if you're VFR. You can request clearance through Bravo airspace in FSX when you're near it. Otherwise, route around it. Same with Charlie or Delta airspace, if you don't want to request clearance through, route around.

The different colors are different airspaces. B for BIG is blue, C is Calmer is the magenta, D is DULL is blue also, usually dashed lines around the airport.

If you get your hands on a VFR sectional, it has a legend on it that you can lay on your desk and refer to as you fly.

[Oracle427]

Only bravo requires a clearance whole VFR. Delta and Charlie just require radio contact to be established. I know that isn't meaningful for the sim implementation, but it is important procedurally as a controller in a Charlie airspace will likely refuse to utter the words "cleared to enter the Charlie". On the other hand the Bravo controllers will get into a fit if you don't readback their clearance.

I don't bother worth using the radio for FSX airspace because it is so inaccurate and it is very buggy.

Otherwise sounds just right.

[William Hughes]

That is an important and subtle point. Basically, class C and D controller's cannot keep you out of there VFR, if you want to fly through go ahead. Class A and B surely can and will gladly banish general aviation aircraft if required.

It is also worth pointing out that there are some class C that you really should not go near without a good reason.

Perhaps for more of a realistic challenge, look up temporary flight restrictions and make sure you route around those...

[Great Ozzie]

Basically, class C and D controller's cannot keep you out of there VFR, if you want to fly through go ahead

And then you could get violated. Hopefully that will be the least of the problem one created.

You have to establish radio communications with either Class C or Class D airspace.

If you call up e.g. Indy Approach and they come back with, Aircraft calling Indianapolis Approach, Standby. you have not established radio communication and you are not permitted into Class C airspace. Same for Class D.

And ATC can most certainly say "remain clear of Class C / Class D airspace".

[bullfox]

I am flying FSX without any add on ATC. I seems the closest I can get to realistic VFR flying with the limited FSX ATC is to either route around controlled airspace or initiate flight following to go through it. Regardless FSX is not going to differentiate between the airspace classes.

On a personal note I have never been able to obtain a pilots liscense due to eyesight too poor for military and later in life devolping vertigo.

A2A has turned FSX into an excellent hobby for people interested in aviation. First learn how to operate the GPS, then learn about to follow the flight plan, then learn how to put in way points and how to deal with controlled airspace and so on. Always more to learn.

[Oracle427]

I once once asked to remain clear of the Islip Charlie because my transponder failed. I had to remain at 500' along the Long Island south shore with the banner tows. Beautiful sightseeing but not very comfortable. Eventually I got it working again and I was allowed to climb into the airspace. Darn vacuum tubes!

[Great Ozzie]

Regardless FSX is not going to differentiate between the airspace classes.

Since FSX's release, I have never looked at the GPS to see much what was going on with that. So I went to CPM (Compton - next to LAX) just to have a look see. I could see Class D around Northrop, Long Beach and Los Alamitos. The Class C around John Wayne (KSNA). LAX Class B. So some is in there. Altitudes for the floors and ceilings I didn't see. Didn't see the Class E extension at CPM... The biggest problem I think is the database. But the FSX GPS could be useful.

My recommendation would be to take your time and have some fun with it by making it a challenge. For example, put yourself on the map somewhere (skyvector) and quiz yourself, where does certain airspace begin (like Class E), what are the types around you - and what is required, in terms of visibility and communication.

Start pointing to things on the map and ask yourself "what does this mean" e.g. a " *L ". I still do that... when I first saw the dashed magenta line off a Class D, my first thought was "what in the world is that?" (previously, it was solely a dashed blue line in a circle or possibly with extensions - magenta wasn't used that way). You can get the FAA Aeronautical Chart User's Guide (link near the bottom). That will help make sense of what's on the map e.g. p. 50-51 will help to visualize what is going on.

I am flying FSX without any add on ATC.

Not sure if you are aware, but there is a service called pilotedge. It's a subscription-type service, and coverage is mainly southern California. I have not used it yet, but everything I hear about it has been good. I plan on using it sometime in the future.

[bullfox]

Rob,
You have a good point about creating and accepting more challenges in FSX as you learn more about aviation and the sim. I used to fly FSX out of Livermore, Ca a lot. Out to the east Livermore there is a small area outlined in dark red on the FSX maps and on the GPS. Turns out in where the Lawrence Livermore lab used to test explosive initiators for nuclear weapons. I actually had driven by it and knew what the purpose of the area was. That made it pretty obvious that dark red was prohibited airspace and so I always flew around any dark red in FSX, but that was as far as I went with controlled airspace for years.

Now I am ready to go further. My current FSX rule of thumb is Class B, route around or go into it only in IFR. Ok to fly over Class B over 10000 ft if no good way to route around. All other classes route around or ok to go into on IFR or VFR with flight following, or fly over above 4000 ft above ground level. Dark red prohibited airspace, stay away or AI F-16s will intercept and shoot down...
Steve

[Oracle427]

There was a forum with the tower controllers at EWR early this year to talk about the NY airspace. They all said the same thing about operating near/around the Bravo airspace.

Talk to us and get a clearance instead of flying around the perimeter of the Bravo.

They find it more difficult to work with unidentified VFR aircraft that are milling around the edges of the Bravo airspace that are interfering with the flow of traffic in and out. Overflying the Bravo is also a problem for them because jets climb very fast and depending on where you are, you might be right in their path.

It really isn't all that bad and I much prefer to do this as the controllers are very accommodating. The only thing is that you really need to be on the ball with clearance readbacks, maintaining your altitude and course and making changes to altitude or course at the expected rates or they tend to get a little excited.

Based on this forum I learned that being within 10-20 miles of the NY Bravo between 4-8 thousand feet can easily put you in the path of traffic for several of the major airports (HPN, TEB, EWR, LGA, and JFK). The coolest part is that they tend to route you directly over the major airports as that is some of the clearest airspace in the Bravo.

[Oracle427]

This video clarifies the procedures for operating in the SFRA and FRZ around DC, just in case you are curious.

Oops, linked added: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1P7CIAAjvfc

[bullfox]

Good to know and makes sense. Maybe better to fly through bravo, but the only comunication through native FSX ATC when VFR is to use flight following. You get a specific transponder squak code. I think the only following comunication is occasional requests to change frequency. I will do some test flights and report back. What we want to do is get as close to possible to good practice as the limitations of FSX will allow. Unfortunately the link to the video you mentioned is missing.

[Oracle427]

Yes, flight following is implemented, but that is definitely not like a Bravo clearance. FSX ATC doesn't do that.

[jeepinforfun]

In PlanG you can hover your cursor over the airspace lines and it will tell you at what altitude you are allowed to pass under or over them. If it shows 4000' to 8000' you need to fly under it or over it. If it shows 0-6000' you need to fly over it. In VFR it is best to fly around Class A & B airspace when you can, if you can't at least fly over it based on the altitude clearance within that section. Probably not real world rules but it's what I do in the sim.

If using FSX ATC in flight following VFR you can request clearance through the big airports and then report clear once out of that airspace.