pulling to the left

[Papalazarou]

Hi all,

I have a bit of a noob question, I keep getting a thing where on the runway as I am speeding up for take off and just after take off I pull to the left, my rudder controls seem to be centred and flaps are in the 0 position. After take off I have to fight the controls and use rudder to stop myself spiralling round and ploughing back in to the runway, it has only just started happening in both the Cessna 182 and the Comanche 250.

It may be unrelated but when it started happening last night I started getting a nil value error, I can't remember exactly how the error read now, it was very short and said about a nil value.

I would welcome any suggestions anyone has to help me overcome this.

Thanks,
Jamie.

[Oracle427]

Single engine prop driven aircraft have left turning tendencies at high power settings and lower airspeeds. This is countered by applying right rudder as required to counter this. As you fly slower in a nose high attitude the effect is exacerbated due to gyroscopic forces and P-Factor.

Have you done your preflight inspections very carefully to ensure no control surfaces are damaged? If unsure, why not check the maintenance hanger to see was is being reported.

Treat the airplane like a car, you wouldn't let a car wander all around the road and then tell the officer who pulls you over, "My steering wheel was centered the entire time!" You need to make lots of small corrections to keep the airplane on the course you want. Learning the appropriate control inputs for each situation is a much longer discussion, but while on the runway, the ailerons are used to stop drifting to the sides and the rudder controls yaw. Once in the air you want to use coordinated rudder/aileron input.

Were you having no issues with control before and only now started having issues, or are you new to A2A aircraft? If you are pitching up to high on takeoff you might be on the edge of a stall and fighting the aircraft for control. Are you climbing at Vx or Vy? You will need to identify the appropriate speeds and configurations for each aircraft and then learn the sight picture when at the appropriate pitch to climb at a given airspeed. Also make sure your trim is set to takeoff so you aren't fighting the aircraft in pitch.

Not sure about the Nil value error. I would suggest posting in either aircraft tech support forum for help with that. Have you installed the most current update?

[Papalazarou]

Thank you for your reply Oracle.

In terms of the preflight checks, I am finding some of the areas don't work as I would expect, as in, when checking the ailerons, where you have the graphic at the bottom of the box showing to move the mouse up and down to perform the check, I cannot get the check to work, I click and hold on the aileron itself, and also the graphic button and move the mouse, and nothing happens. With regards to this scenario, I have performed an overhaul before flying, so everything *should* be in a-1 condition.

To be honest, in terms of why this has only just started happening, I think I know the reason. I read the A2A manual for the Comanche 250 and noticed A2A recommended settings for the realism settings in FSX, and I hadn't unchecked the automatic rudder control which seems to be the default in FSX, so now I have done that, I have noticed it is a lot harder to make the aircraft 'behave' (as you'd expect) so I imagine this is a lot of my issue.

Also, just thinking about it, and after reading another post on this forum about cross winds, maybe that is the issue. Another noob question, how do I check the direction and strength of the wind from my cockpit, is there a dial to show that?

Many thanks,
Jamie.

[Oracle427]

Ah yes, turning off autorudder will have you working for your pay.

You don't click on the 3D airplane itself during the preflight checks, there are buttons at the bottom of each dialog box and you will need to click on those to reveal photographs or hold down the button to wiggle flaps around. I don't have the Comanche so I can't comment on specifics. Some of the buttons only do something if you spot an issue such as a blocked static port or a rag in the cowling.

FYI - I'm going to guess that just like a 172, if your flaps aren't extended as per the preflight checklist, then the flaps won't wiggle around.

Checking for winds means checking the windsock or automated weather by tuning in to the ATIS/AWOS/ASOS frequency if available at the airport you are departing/arriving at. For example, at CDW, the ATIS is 135.50. Smaller airports will have no such feature and you will need to rely upon the sock when on the ground or upon your drift over the ground when in the air. IRL, you have other clues such as ripples on water, smoke, listening to other pilots at the airport. If you are using a real world weather add-on, then you can also look up current conditions on skyvector.com for the US.

While learning, I'd suggest keeping to relatively calm conditions with less crosswind, preferably 5kts or less until you get the hang of it. Better yet, turn off the weather in the sim altogether until you get the hang of it.

Have a read through the operating limitations, procedures and checklists in the manual, they'll give you a lot of critical information about the aircraft and are structured much like a real operating handbook.

[Papalazarou]

Thanks Oracle. Its because I haven't extended the flaps before the checks I think then.

It's hard to know where to start in terms of the learning curve with an A2A sim, I say curve but its more like a very tall brick wall!!

I agree with you though, while I learning I'll avoid cross winds! Thanks for your help Oracle.

[Oracle427]

I took a quick look at the manual on the store.

I would start at page 52 for the very important reference material. It goes fast with a lot of diagrams. I would assume that the shift-8 preflight screens have the preflight checklist items built in just as they are for the 172. If it calls for flaps down in there then make sure to do so.

[Nick - A2A]

I keep getting a thing where on the runway as I am speeding up for take off and just after take off I pull to the left, my rudder controls seem to be centred and flaps are in the 0 position. After take off I have to fight the controls and use rudder to stop myself spiralling round and ploughing back in to the runway, it has only just started happening in both the Cessna 182 and the Comanche 250.

Hi Jamie,

In addition to the excellent suggestions already provided by Oracle, this thread may also be worth a look: drastic yaw/roll at rotation.

This video originally posted in that thread by 'Alfredson007' is particularly relevant and the "dipsy-doodle" as described by Martha King may be what you're encountering. (Apologies: it's a rather old video so the resolution is not great.)



I think that the most recent update somewhat increased the rudder input required to counter the left-turning tendencies described in the thread linked above. You actually need quite a bit of right rudder input as you lift off and climb out to keep the inclinometer ball centred and the aeroplane pointing in the right general direction!

Cheers,
Nick

[Papalazarou]

Thank you Nick, that is exactly what I am finding, so I will try with lots more rudder on lift off in future, I assume once airborne I can bring the rudder back? I wasn't even aware this was a phenomenon on single prop aircraft but it makes sense if the prop naturally pulls to one side.

[Oracle427]

You need to use exactly what is required. There is no specific position to keep as the amount varies by so many factors. Just apply whatever is needed and keep those feet active. Many small and rapid corrections are required, not large slow movements.

Think of how your hand would move about to balance a broom stick or a baseball bat. That is how your feet should be moving on the rudder pedals. It is a visual exercise with your eyes outside the airplane. Watch the horizon and the runway. Stop any side to side motion immediately.

[Papalazarou]

Makes sense, thank you Oracle. I'm yet to invest in rudder pedals but I have a rudder bar at the front of my throttle stick which works quite nicely. I'm actually in the process of trying to convince my wife to let me take flying lessons at Sywell Aerodrome, which is a few miles from my house, so far she doesn't seem to mind as long as I stop talking to her about all things aviation!! This game has definitely given me the flying bug!!

[Great Ozzie]

Helps to use the inclinometer on turn coordinator... you can glance down at the ball to see where it is.

Great little article on use of the rudder by Budd Davisson - Choose To Fly Right (AOPA Flight Training).

-Rob

[Papalazarou]

Thank you Rob, that is a great article!

[Wasabi65]

I share your experience about controlling the pull to the left. It has taken me days of practice to figure out how to keep on the runway during TO. Staying on the centreline is my next goal
Once airborne there is still a big pull to the left which requires almost a full right movement of the joystick. However,once the speed has picked up to near 90kts it becomes easier to control and only requires about 25% of the movement to the right on the joystick.
This is all just a product of the realism that has been coded into the sim; the left pull is apparently normal.
I have only been in a C172 in RL once but I remember that we were constantly being thrown side to side and up and down; requiring some quite large adjustments of the yoke to try and stay level. The A2A mirrors this very accurately.
Straight and level flight is probably something that you will only get in the default C172 in FSX I think.
Good luck.

[Oracle427]

25% input at cruise power and speed to stop rolling left is very excessive. It should require the smallest input to adjust for. Something doesn't sound correct to me. I would double check your controller calibrations and make sure your null zones are all the way left and sensitivity is all the way right on each axis.

Edit: Seat of the pants flying Nick!

[Nick - A2A]

[...] make sure your bum axis is all the way left [...]

"Bum axis" eh? That sounds, er, interesting!

Nick

...Edit

Edit: Seat of the pants flying Nick!

Good comeback! I'm afraid I have the sense of humour of an 8 year old sometimes... "Bum? hehehe!"