Crosswind takeoff: rudder transition?

[uncertifiedpilot]

Hello fellow simmers,

I'm currently practicing crosswind takeoffs (20kts) with the C182 and experience quite some trouble to execute a controlled takeoff.

Particularly, I'm stuggling to transition from my downwind rudder position during takeoff roll to the crabbing/upwind rudder position after lift off. Is this even the right way to execute a crosswind takeoff? Perhaps I should avoid crabbing after lift off, but stick to cross controlling the ailerons and rudder in a 'forward slip' fashion, just like during the takeoff roll... ?

Any advice is appreciated!

[DHenriques_]

Hello fellow simmers,

I'm currently practicing crosswind takeoffs (20kts) with the C182 and experience quite some trouble to execute a controlled takeoff.

Particularly, I'm stuggling to transition from my downwind rudder position during takeoff roll to the crabbing/upwind rudder position after lift off. Is this even the right way to execute a crosswind takeoff? Perhaps I should avoid crabbing after lift off, but stick to cross controlling the ailerons and rudder in a 'forward slip' fashion, just like during the takeoff roll... ?
Any advice is appreciated!

Try not to over think cross wind takeoffs. Follow the book as far as the ground roll goes as to aileron into the wind easing it off as dictated by the wind as the roll progresses, then at rotation, forget the book and go with the flow. As you rotate simply allow a crab into the wind using whatever control is necessary to achieve a ground track on the runway heading. Then track on out on that heading picking a landmark out in front of you for reference.
Dudley Henriques

[Ron Attwood]

Try not to over think cross wind takeoffs. Follow the book as far as the ground roll goes as to aileron into the wind easing it off as dictated by the wind as the roll progresses, then at rotation, forget the book and go with the flow. As you rotate simply allow a crab into the wind using whatever control is necessary to achieve a ground track on the runway heading. Then track on out on that heading picking a landmark out in front of you for reference.
Dudley Henriques

Wait a minute! That's called 'Flying' isn't it?

[DHenriques_]

Try not to over think cross wind takeoffs. Follow the book as far as the ground roll goes as to aileron into the wind easing it off as dictated by the wind as the roll progresses, then at rotation, forget the book and go with the flow. As you rotate simply allow a crab into the wind using whatever control is necessary to achieve a ground track on the runway heading. Then track on out on that heading picking a landmark out in front of you for reference.
Dudley Henriques

Wait a minute! That's called 'Flying' isn't it?

)

One of the first things we do as good instructors is to get a student out of the long wordy explanations in the books for things like a crosswind take off which is an event that happens in real time over a period of seconds and in a constantly changing dynamic situation.
The answer in the cockpit is always simplicity; the reduction of what seems a complicated procedure into something the student can do easily.
Once done this way, the comprehension, retention, and subsequent understanding follows.
Dudley Henriques

[Racklefratz]

Particularly, I'm stuggling to transition from my downwind rudder position during takeoff roll to the crabbing/upwind rudder position after lift off. Is this even the right way to execute a crosswind takeoff? Perhaps I should avoid crabbing after lift off, but stick to cross controlling the ailerons and rudder in a 'forward slip' fashion, just like during the takeoff roll... ?

Late to the party, and the questions have mostly been answered. But I don't think of "rudder" on take-off roll, regardless of winds. Use ailerons as necessary for roll control to the extent that's even possible on the ground, but on take-off, the rudder pedals are for keeping the airplane on the runway centerline with nose wheel steering, not for "crosswind" maneuvering.

Just use the pedals to keep the airplane straight, lift off, and let the airplane weathervane into the wind to maintain your groundtrack. It becomes intuitive after while.

[Oracle427]

Ailerons on the ground pay a very important role in keeping the aircraft in centerline with crosswinds. The rudder controls yaw,but the ailerons are used to stop drifts to the left and right. As the weight ofthe airplane is taken up by the wings, the wheels won't keep the airplane in place as well. The ailerons will take up this task. The normal practice is to start the takeoff with ailerons full in the direction of the wind. As the ailerons become more effective you ease them out. Normally this will result in lifting onto one main gear before taking off.

Without aileron input you may end up sideloading the tires quite a bit.

Edit to fix some errors. Darn smart phone spellchecker.

[DHenriques_]

Ailerons on the ground pay a very important role in keeping the aircraft in centerline with crosswinds. The rudder controls yaw,but the ailerons are used to stop drifts to the left and right. As the weight ofthe airplane is taken up by the wings, the wheels won't keep the airplane in place as well. The ailerons will take up this task. The normal practice is to stay with ailerons full in the direction of the wind. As the ailerons become more effective you ease them out. Normally this will result in lifting onto one main gear before taking off.

Without aileron input you may end up sideloading the tires quote a bit.

I would add to what Oracle correctly told you that as you rotate don't worry about the rudder. Let the plane weathervane into the wind as you find the exact coordinated drift correction to maintain runway heading.
Once the drift correction is established that is coordinated. Just watch the nose attitude. Keep it in climb attitude with coordinated drift control.
Dudley Henriques

[ft]

Without aileron input you may end up sideloading the tires quite a bit..

Are you saying that the ailerons produce a lateral (sideways) force component on the take-off roll?

[AKar]

Without aileron input you may end up sideloading the tires quite a bit..

Are you saying that the ailerons produce a lateral (sideways) force component on the take-off roll?

No, but the resulting slight bank into the wind does. Note that otherwise the plane would bank the opposite way slightly, pushed by the wind hitting the fuselage and the vertical stabilizer. That, obviously, is not a good thing.

(Actually, with positive dihedral, the ailerons do have a slight lateral component, but likely small enough to be ignored.)

-Esa

[Oracle427]

Just as Esa said, the banking creates the lateral force and while yaw is controlled with the rudder.

The ailerons become effective very quickly in the takeoff roll and initially will just put extra weight on the upwind wheel to "anchor" down the aircraft and keep it from sliding around.

A few moments later as the wings generate enough lift to carry the aircraft the aircraft will lift up in a banked attitude.

[AKar]

Yep, also in small planes it is noteworthy that the lowly loaded wing is typically set at rather high positive incidence at three points already, meaning that its lift vector is meaningful enough to be worth of management even very early during takeoff run. This compares to the airliners, where the full upwind aileron is plain stupid IMO, as this just results in those tiny ailerons crossing and the roll spoilers extending, taking away from what is already calculated to the borderline of manageable with balanced field performance calculations to 'optimize' the takeoff...

-Esa