VMC into IMC

[christophdoe]

Hey,

I just read the book 'The Killing Zone' and after finishing the chapter about VMC into IMC a question came up.
I'm not a real pilot by the way, but I want to make my license at some point in the future. Although the statistics and accidents in the book rattled me a little bit about that decision :/

Anyway, it appears that VMC into IMC is really dangerous and I understand that disorientation plays a big part of it. But at least some of the airplanes must have had an autopilot?!
Wouldn't it be an option to just turn on the autopilot on in order to stay level or even follow a heading 180° backwards, instead of trusting your own abilities?
Or are autopilot in VFR airplanes rather rare?

And just on a side note maybe. A lot of the accidents int he book are due to lack of control especially on low altitude and low speed, accelerated stall etc. Since I flew the A2As I might have had three or four moments were I really lost control and it was mainly because I played around, overspeed, did low intentional stalls or tried some aerobatics. There were only a few moments on go-arounds where I almost lost it but it wasn't that hard to get it back, full throttle and some forward pressure to get airspeed and that mainly did it. I don't think I have any special abilities in the regard and of course flying in real is a different thing. But it is really that easy to loose control of an airplane?! Or is the simulation a little bit more forgiving here?

Thanks in advance,
Christoph

[Oracle427]

Once upon a time just 4 short years ago when I was a student pilot I also started having these same thoughts. I had already witnessed two crashes at my airport (no one hurt in both, but the planes were wrecked beyond repair). I had thousands of hours of sim time since the early eighties and couldn't for the life of me figure out how someone could actually allow an airplane to enter an unaccellerated stall. I had not yet done aerobatics, so I didn't know what it would take to enter an accelerated stall.

I told my instructor about this and he smiled and said that I should never think that. His smile was a hint of things to come. He waited and eventually leveraged a good distraction to get me to stop flying the plane just long enough for the stall warning horn to sound. It was an eye opener for me!

The simulator is more forgiving in some ways because you are not exposed to accelerations that can confuse and even overwhelm the senses. No flight simulator I have used has ever properly modeled ground handling and the way that these aircraft hop and pivot around their tires once they have just a little speed. If you aren't performing the correct rudder footwork, it can get out of hand quickly, especially in tailwheel aircraft.

I have a healthy respect for the weather and do not wish to find out what why one loses control in a VMC to IMC scenario. I do get "the leans" sometimes when I put on foggles, or go into IMC conditions during IFR training. It is a very powerful sensation and it takes a good amount of concentration to ignore what your senses are telling you and to obey the instrumentation. Eventually it becomes much easier, but at first you have to focus very hard to maintain precise control. The issue is when you get overwhelmed, what will you do? Will you revert back to your most basic training (right), or will you revert back to your instincts (wrong)? A good instructor that understands primacy in training is important in early flight training.

An autopilot can get one out of an unusual attitude, they won't engage beyond certain limits and if for some reason they do they'll likely make matters far worse by overstressing the airframe. The issue is that in most accidents, the pilot is in over their head by making a series of bad decisions that compound one another. By the time they enter IMC, many times they are already in a very high workload state with limited or no ability to process any other information. They are unable to continue the decision cycle where they keep reevaluating the situation, their options and their execution. The situation keeps deteriorating until they reach a point of overload where they lose control of the airplane.

I went on to fly unusual attitude and upset recovery with Rich Stowell just a few months after I got my PPL. It was very valuable experience and I also learned how much easier it is to stall other types of aircraft, especially aerobatic ones with tons of control deflection. Just a little control pressure was the difference between normal flight and an accelerated stall in some maneuvers. I also experienced my first secondary stall. It was an excellent confidence building hour in the air.

One thing you learn in aviation is that when you get a little overconfident a serving of humble pie is coming from around the corner. Never stop learning and always fully prepare for every flight including getting sufficient rest.

Edit: Some spelling errors.

[William Hughes]

I have flown into IMC by "accident" four times over the last 30 years. Twice in fog/cloud, once in snow, and once in smoke. In the fog and snow occasions it was a combination of high work load, steadily lowering ceilings, and a short moment of distraction. And then visual reference was lost - it was very sudden. I had instrument training early and maintained control using instruments. Turned 180 and got out of the snow, maintained straight and level and climbed out of the fog. All them could have been avoid by being a bit more cautious.

The smoke was an early morning (before dawn) departure. I was stable at 6,500 feet and enjoying the sunrise when I realized that the horizon was "over" the sun. I had been flying in and over a forest fire smoke cloud for about 30 minutes and had no visual reference to the actual ground. Maintained course and once the sun was high enough I descended to regain reference and finished the flight. No real drama or hazard there.

My instrument rating is active now, and during training and a few actual IMC flights (there is no autopilot in my aircraft) I still end up turning without realizing it during a moments distraction while looking at a radio or a chart. Approach briefings are a real issue and I will be installing an autopilot as soon as I can afford it.

There are many illusions but all of them can be overcome with training. Don't let reading a book put you off actual flying! Be careful and attentive and you'll be fine.

[Lewis - A2A]

This popped up this evening on the local airfield fb page here, thought of this thread;

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r2MVDY8o7Bs[/youtube]

cheers,
Lewis

[Piper_EEWL]

Holy sh***! That was a close call!

[AKar]

Looking at all the fancy glass stuff they had installed - I wonder how much the 'false' situational awareness from televisions encouraged them to push on. Wouldn't have been the first 'magenta line leading into a mountain'.

-Esa

[aprewett]

Would be handy to know what the 'VMC IMC' all means, please.
Allan

[crazac]

Would be handy to know what the 'VMC IMC' all means, please.
Allan

VMC = Visual Meteorological Conditions
IMC = Instrument Meteorological Conditions

[aprewett]

Thanks.
My head was fuzzy with the abbreviations.
Allan

[whiteside]

Oracle427 you said it best. Bravo! Well written response.
I agree with every word.
Will Whiteside

[Lewis - A2A]

Looking at all the fancy glass stuff they had installed - I wonder how much the 'false' situational awareness from televisions encouraged them to push on. Wouldn't have been the first 'magenta line leading into a mountain'.

-Esa

Its interesting as esp in the US with Foreflight now having synthetic vision it should in theory start to help for those that get into IMC due to closing weather conditions etc.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-YKYjigYgok[/youtube]

thanks,
Lewis

[Oracle427]

Honestly I don't think it will make a big difference. Crashing in IMC usually isn't the result of CFIT. In the majority of cases the pilot loses control and then crashes. If they can't use the AI and other instrumentation to maintain control, I'm not sure what will.

Now synthetic vision may prove very uaeful for landing in IMC as it will help the pilot see where the runway is and how they are aligned to it.

In summary, doubt it will help to maintain control, but it will help improve SA.

[Great Ozzie]

I'm not a real pilot by the way, but I want to make my license at some point in the future. Although the statistics and accidents in the book rattled me a little bit about that decision :/

Keep it in perspective. There's a saying - Aviation in itself is not inherently dangerous. But to an even greater degree than the sea, it is terribly unforgiving of any carelessness, incapacity or neglect. The smart thing is to treat flying with a great deal of respect. Abide by the regs, insurance requirements, the manufacturers limitations & recommendations, FBO limitations, what your flight instructor teaches you - and whatever limitations he places on you, what you can learn from books and magazines and training material... it's a journey. It's work. But it is incredibly rewarding.

There needs to be a balance - not terrified (which can keep you grounded) but not brazen (which can put you into the ground) - a healthy respect for what you are doing.

Anyway, it appears that VMC into IMC is really dangerous and I understand that disorientation plays a big part of it.

It is very dangerous. I would call it a form of Russian roulette if you don't have the rating and are not "current". One of those things that is just plain stupid in my book.

Flight from VMC into IMC doesn't just "happen". My personal observation is, the pilot makes a deliberate choice (i.e. poor judgement) to push into conditions they have no business operating in (the video Lewis posted is an example). We all make mistakes (and do stupid things) but there has to be the commitment and discipline not to repeat an error - to learn from it to be a better (safer) pilot. If we manage to successfully extricate ourselves out of a situation - we cannot use it as a means of "well, I got away with it that time" - a justification for doing it again - legally or illegally.

For example, if you learn to fly and want to operate in IMC, no problem. Just get the required training, and then prove to a designated examiner that you are qualified to operate in conditions less than what is required for VFR flight. Then be smart how you use it.

When you get the instrument rating, its not like you have a license for "all weather" operations. Just as when you are a student pilot, then become a Private Pilot (VFR) - there will always be limitations due to experience level, currency, equipment available and the regs. It's a license to learn. Think of it like going to the gym to work out. You don't start out an athlete, but time and training with increasing difficultly can produce excellent results and greatly increased ability. You work to obtain certain skills. But those skills can atrophy with disuse. So recurrent training is essential to retain the ability to operate safely within the system.

But at least some of the airplanes must have had an autopilot?!
Wouldn't it be an option to just turn on the autopilot on in order to stay level or even follow a heading 180° backwards, instead of trusting your own abilities?
Or are autopilot in VFR airplanes rather rare?

In my experience (training / renting) autopilots were rare even though the airplanes were IFR capable. I think they're becoming more common, for example, in the newer C172s & C182s you might see at an FBO or club. But an autopilot is not a substitute for lack of skill and/or good decision making. They relieve you of the physical input, not the responsibility or skill required to know that the airplane is doing "what it should be doing."

But speaking to your point, there is one autopilot that has a "Straight & Level" button. Checkout this "AOPA Live" vid of the Avidyne DFC90 autopilot. But this is something of recent development. Anyone else aware of any other autopilot having this capability?

Btw, you mention the "180 Turn". Yes, a great maneuver, but no autopilot needed to execute it. I have used it. It could be something such as, when heading into deteriorating conditions, where the ceilings and / or visibility are lowering, you may have to return back to your departure point to wait until the next day to make the trip. It is the kind of delay that is infinitely preferable over getting in way over your head - and possibly getting into that "killing zone".

And this really speaks to making the trip, and flying in general. You have to be completely willing at any point in the process to "pull the plug" i.e. cancel the flight when an issue arises. Inoperative equipment on preflight? Excessive mag drop on runup? Engine instruments don't quite look correct on the takeoff roll? Forecast not as expected and ceilings / visibility lowering? Each of those requires a decision that could mean cancelling or aborting the flight as planned.

As the saying goes, if you want to be on time, fly the airlines. If you want to have fun, fly GA.

[christophdoe]

Thanks for the great replies

I'll let you know whenever I start to make my PPL

You have to be completely willing at any point in the process to "pull the plug" i.e. cancel the flight when an issue arises. Inoperative equipment on preflight? Excessive mag drop on runup? Engine instruments don't quite look correct on the takeoff roll? Forecast not as expected and ceilings / visibility lowering? Each of those requires a decision that could mean cancelling or aborting the flight as planned.

I think this wouldn't be too much of a problem, at least not in the beginning. As I tend to be a little more on the cautious side of things. So at this point I'm more concerned if I'll have the courage at the end...
In other words, and this might go a little off topic here, have you been scared or nervous on your first flight lessons? How was it on your first solo?

[Piper_EEWL]

Well the problems (we're you keep on pushing even you feel that stone in your stomach) usually arise when you have to go home or if you have to return a chartered plane etc. That's why tend to avoid "flying home for Christmas" trips.

The first solo is exciting sure. You just have to tell you that the instructor wouldn't have send you up alone if he or she wouldn't be convinced that you're ready.

I can only recommend going for a pilots license. I have never regretted it once!