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 Post subject: Trim Takeoff Setting
PostPosted: Sun Jan 12, 2014 5:46 am 
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Airman

Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2012 8:39 am
Posts: 16
Hi guys anyone recommend what setting they use for elevator trim in C172 for TO, It always takes me ages to trim the aircraft when I am flying any advice would be appreciated? Also I always have a slight aileron tilt left all the time not sure if that's my rudder pedals or not. Anyway thanks in advance. Wayne.


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 Post subject: Re: Trim Takeoff Setting
PostPosted: Sun Jan 12, 2014 6:38 am 
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Airman

Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2011 2:45 pm
Posts: 48
Location: Sellersburg, Indiana
I set mine with the mark lining up to the letter K in TAKEOFF (maybe a touch higher). If I don't the plane tries to ascend at about 2000 FPS.
It doesn't matter if I have 1 or 4 people in the plane.


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 Post subject: Re: Trim Takeoff Setting
PostPosted: Sun Jan 12, 2014 8:28 am 
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Posts: 14776
Location: USA
If you are speaking of a 172R, the plane will lift off and climb rather steeply with the trim set to takeoff. You will need to use nose down trim shortly after you lift off to establish an 80kt climb.

Scott.

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 Post subject: Re: Trim Takeoff Setting
PostPosted: Sun Jan 12, 2014 4:19 pm 
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Airman

Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2012 8:39 am
Posts: 16
Thanks guys


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 Post subject: Re: Trim Takeoff Setting
PostPosted: Mon Jan 13, 2014 6:40 am 
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Joined: Mon Apr 05, 2010 2:12 pm
Posts: 167
Location: Montreal, Canada
I have to trim nose down on climb but find I need to then significantly trim nose down at 2200 rpm once at level flight and a speed of around 110kts. Wondering if this is my joystick or if this is how the aircraft should be trimmed at cruise. Searched the forum but haven't seen any threads on the subject.

Mike


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 Post subject: Re: Trim Takeoff Setting
PostPosted: Mon Jan 13, 2014 9:07 pm 
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Location: USA
The C172R take a lot of nose down trim in cruise. What you are seeing is the same as in the actual plane.

Scott.

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 Post subject: Re: Trim Takeoff Setting
PostPosted: Sun Feb 16, 2014 8:54 pm 
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Airman

Joined: Mon Jan 27, 2014 10:20 pm
Posts: 26
I've always had trouble trimming so I finally set up a little cheat. I put the plane in a stable attitude and noted the trim positions on a piece of paper. The attitudes I noted were cruise climb, cruise and flaps. (As it turned out all flap settings worked well at one trim setting.) For take off, I set it to cruise climb. This is insufficient for takeoff but is a self correcting problem. After rotation, I just hold the yolk as necessary until it stabalizes at cruise climb-- I like 76 knots. When I go to cruise, I quickly reset the trim without paying attention to the plane. This takes just seconds and then I'm back to flying the plane. This setting is rarely right on, but I only need a little fine tuning to get it right on. Same thing when I engage flaps. Quickly reset the trim and fine tune as necessary. These presets have cut trimming time by a factor of 4! I now find when flying the circuit I am ahead of the plane instead of scrammbling to keep up with it.

For me cruise climb is between the bottom two bars of the "E", cruise is the bottom of the "K" and flaps about 1/3 from the top of the "K". I will guarantee your setting will be different! Weight, balance, pressure altitude, temperature and the way you hold your mouth will all affect the best location. I fully except I will have to adjust my setting this summer.

Hope this helps!

As for the aileron tilt, this sounds like a controller problem. You may be able to get around it by setting a larger null zone.


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 Post subject: Re: Trim Takeoff Setting
PostPosted: Wed May 21, 2014 4:38 pm 
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Airman

Joined: Thu Sep 19, 2013 11:18 am
Posts: 25
Having recently transitioned from older model Skyhawks, to a newer ones with electric trim; I've noticed it much more pronounced in the newer models.

It could be as a result of the 40 years of student pilot abuse on the carbonated models. Also the electric pitch trim is slower than the speed at which I manually spin the trim wheel.

The newer model I've flown, with the trim on the takeoff line, almost no force is required to rotate and climb at Vx. A good two or three seconds of pushing the nose trim down is required to establish Vy climb. Another 2 or 3 for a 80 knot cruise climb.

This is even more pronounced with a cg towards the rear of the envelope or with flaps 10.

You have to be ready for it, just like you have to be ready with the right rudder.


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 Post subject: Re: Trim Takeoff Setting
PostPosted: Sat Dec 06, 2014 11:47 am 
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Airman

Joined: Fri Dec 05, 2014 11:42 am
Posts: 13
The elevator trim on the A2A C172 and C182 is very different to other sim versions of these planes.

If yo use a button on a yoke or a joystick, you have to push it a VERY long time to trim elevator in the A2A planes.
In the Aircraft.cfg, flight tuning, both have elevator trim set to 0 (zero) I´m currently working on how much to adjust this setting in order to comfortably trim the planes because with 0 it takes forever and you easily overdo your trim. It doesnt feel very realistic and you use to much time with the trim.

One of the best FS2004 cessna 172 was the flight1 version. Just like the A2A, it lifted a lot when taking off, but the elevator trim was opposite. It was set to 1.0 and that was way to much because you couldnt control the elevator trim. It was either way to much or to little. You pushed the button once and the plane totally changed its trim. I ended up with 0.3 in order to control the FS9 Flight1 C172.


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 Post subject: Re: Trim Takeoff Setting
PostPosted: Sat Dec 06, 2014 4:19 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jun 06, 2014 1:06 pm
Posts: 5332
andresico wrote:
If yo use a button on a yoke or a joystick, you have to push it a VERY long time to trim elevator in the A2A planes.

Have you tried using the A2A input configurator? (It's available from the Start Menu.) This allows you to use your yoke/joystick buttons to operate the electric trim switch on the yoke in the virtual cockpit. This should give a faster trim rate than the default FSX trim key assignment (albeit without the default 'trim acceleration' feature). You'll also be able to see the trim switch on the VC yoke move if you use this method.

Hope this helps,
Nick


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 Post subject: Re: Trim Takeoff Setting
PostPosted: Sat Dec 06, 2014 8:06 pm 
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A2A Lieutenant Colonel
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Joined: Sat Nov 06, 2004 11:22 pm
Posts: 26564
Location: Beccles, Suffolk, UK
andresico wrote:
The elevator trim on the A2A C172 and C182 is very different to other sim versions of these planes.

If yo use a button on a yoke or a joystick, you have to push it a VERY long time to trim elevator in the A2A planes.
In the Aircraft.cfg, flight tuning, both have elevator trim set to 0 (zero) I´m currently working on how much to adjust this setting in order to comfortably trim the planes because with 0 it takes forever and you easily overdo your trim. It doesnt feel very realistic and you use to much time with the trim.

One of the best FS2004 cessna 172 was the flight1 version. Just like the A2A, it lifted a lot when taking off, but the elevator trim was opposite. It was set to 1.0 and that was way to much because you couldnt control the elevator trim. It was either way to much or to little. You pushed the button once and the plane totally changed its trim. I ended up with 0.3 in order to control the FS9 Flight1 C172.


Any editing of the trim setting cfg's will invalidate your simulation and is not supported. They are either ignored by Accu-sim programming or set an a specific value for correct operation. With the 172 and 182 thats to comply with the ability to use the electric trim. Please see the relevant tech support forums for further information.

It should also be noted that trim is an aid to flying and is NOT a primary flight control surface as some simmers use it.

thanks,
Lewis

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 Post subject: Re: Trim Takeoff Setting
PostPosted: Sun Dec 07, 2014 2:36 pm 
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Airman

Joined: Fri Dec 05, 2014 11:42 am
Posts: 13
thanks for the hint about the configurator. It sounds very interesting. I dont specially like the default trim acceleration anyways.
in the end its about getting used to some aircraft that do not work like all the rest. I have no problems with that and time enough to find out. Besides, I think these birds are worth the effort to learn to do things a different way. I mean, isnt that the whole idea about the concept.

Lewis, dont worry, the aircraft will not implode because of me changing a number in the elevatortrim in the aircraft cfg. Besides, I have a default copy of the aircraft.cfg.
Basically, I´ve come to the conclusion that changing the elevator setting doesnt change anything, so I will try the config way. Please understand that after years of changing little things in the cfg file, its something you consider part of getting a new addon plane. Some come with very unrealistic elevator trim settings, where the plane goes up and down with just one push on the button. (I´m sure you have tried that)


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 Post subject: Re: Trim Takeoff Setting
PostPosted: Sun Dec 07, 2014 6:09 pm 
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A2A Lieutenant Colonel
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Joined: Sat Nov 06, 2004 11:22 pm
Posts: 26564
Location: Beccles, Suffolk, UK
Please remember that Accu-sim aircraft are not like normal addon aircraft. We create simulations using outside coding with our own simulation engine, standard MSFS tricks will not work, will cause unrealistic behaviour and is not supported.

Thanks,
Lewis


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 Post subject: Re: Trim Takeoff Setting
PostPosted: Fri Dec 19, 2014 9:56 am 
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Airman

Joined: Sun Dec 07, 2014 8:04 am
Posts: 10
I have only completed 15 hours of full size flying a 172 Cessna and have never had a problem with holding the aircraft straight and level in either take off or landing. However with this A2A 172 I find it extremely difficult to control both the direction along the runway and the climb rate. As soon as the wheels leave the ground, with ZERO wind set, the aircraft diverts to the LEFT every time and no amount of gentle aileron or rudder inputs will correct it. Any Ideas ? I have a joystick that I have set up aileron and rudder trims on but they don't seem to have much of an effect. I also have problems with the elevator trim but this is manageable.


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 Post subject: Re: Trim Takeoff Setting
PostPosted: Fri Dec 19, 2014 11:04 am 
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Joined: Fri Jun 06, 2014 1:06 pm
Posts: 5332
rodders - fairly gentle right rudder input should be enough to stay on the centreline during the take-off roll and climb-out.

Your flight controls could be the culprit. Either the calibration for your actual joystick or a possible Accu-Sim control surface defect such as a jammed hinge. I'm wondering if you've checked the maintenance hanger or done a pre-flight recently? Are you getting full and unimpeded control surface deflections and are your flight controls properly neutral when your joystick is in its centred position?

Cheers,
Nick


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