Real world training schools

[flyboy4612]

Hello A2A Community.
Well, I've got my private pilot license and college degree in my pocket. I'm looking to take flying to the next level and start training for a career in aviation. I'm looking around at schools and am curious if anybody here has recommendations. So far I have contacted PanAm International Flight Academy, Spartan School of Aeronautics, and American Flyers. There are so many schools out there it's a bit overwhelming! Just curious to see if any of you had some good information. Thanks!

[seaniam81]

Well let me ask. What kind of career in aviation are you looking for? What kind of hours and requirements are needed to get your foot in the door. Aviation schools are great, but don't always get you to where you need to go. I've had a few friends who completed those kinds of schools and still needed to put time in Instructing, towing banners, tossing boxes, and the like.

[flyboy4612]

I'm looking for something that pays. Some schools take you on as a CFI for a while to build time which is nice. The woman I spoke with at PanAm said that they don't train you as an instructor and pretty much put you to work since they are now Legacy airline. As far as what I really want? It could be airline, corporate, flying cargo, CFI...whatever. I'm already anticipating not making much in the beginning but I work as a manager in a grocery store right now not making much anyway. Might as well be in the air not making much instead of bagging groceries all day! Eventually I want to be a part of the warbird community. It's a dream but I want to pursue it. I'm only 25 so I have time!

[seaniam81]

Try talking to your current flight school about getting a night and vfr over the top rating, as they are the first steps towards a commercial. I would also talk to them about getting you started on a commercial, because once it's started a lot of your rental time can go towards the hour requirements. My current instructor/guy I rent from keeps hounding me about that too.

[pjc747]

Try talking to your current flight school about getting a night and vfr over the top rating, as they are the first steps towards a commercial. I would also talk to them about getting you started on a commercial, because once it's started a lot of your rental time can go towards the hour requirements. My current instructor/guy I rent from keeps hounding me about that too.

This is a good idea. Remember, you don't necessarily have to go to any aviation schools to get to airline pilot, because depending on who is interviewing you, the fact that you go to the airline's requirements out of your own hard work and determination, as opposed to money, is something that might get you ahead of the guy who has the identical rap sheet as you.

[N1684T]

I think it's all going too depend on what direction and how far you want too go with it.
One word of warning,don't be influenced by going outside the U.S.A. if you you want too fly the major airline route,that can come back later and bite you hard.
Best Regards
Mark S.

[seaniam81]

One word of warning,don't be influenced by going outside the U.S.A. if you you want too fly the major airline route,that can come back later and bite you hard.

That all depends on where you go. It's extremely easy to convert some licenses. The conversion from Canadian to US is little more then some paperwork a medical and some written tests. In some cases you actually get an insurance break if you have a Canadian endorsement. A friend of mine came up here to get his CPL then went back home converted his license and now fly's for a major carrier. If you would like to know more here is a copy of the conversion agreement between Transport Canada and the FAA http://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/civilaviation/s ... nu-483.htm

[CAPFlyer]

Try talking to your current flight school about getting a night and vfr over the top rating, as they are the first steps towards a commercial.

Word of warning. There are no such ratings in the US. Night is part of you private pilot training, and VFR on top requires a current Instrument Rating, so it is part of your instrument training.

Best thing to different is decide where you want to end up and make a plan to get there. It you want to haul passengers the're is nothing wrong with going to a big school as they'll give you a leg up on the interview and placement, but if you find a good local school you'll get just as good training and experience you''ll just have more work to do getting your first job. That isn't always a bad thing either. You'll get good experience with smaller operations and learn how to fly in more challenging conditions than just going from school to airline.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk 2

[N1684T]

Flyboy4612,
Just be very careful about what choices you make along the way.Also I really hate too disappoint you on the subject of pay but in general(most often the case)high pay and flying professionally is a pipe dream that will never happen,not to mention something called "steady employment". I am sure some people will say there is lots of "key word steady" flying occupation's(not true). Those Aviation schools will make you believe that there is a pilot shortage or projected one coming(Bullsh** handed on a plater) just to get your money. Aviation schools are great route,just take with a grain of salt anything they tell you about the Professional Airline Industry.
If you want a career in aviation be prepared for spending alot of money,time,away times from home which is ludicrious(if you have a family tension's will arise in the home). 8 to 10 years minimum for any U.S. major carrier's before you might have the option of the "left seat"and "prime route's".
I truly speak from experience's I encountered with my years of flying professionally,not to be negeative but to keep the thread reality based. I wish the best of luck for you,in your choices you make.

Hope this help's some
Mark S.

[flyboy4612]

CAP is right, there is no such rating in the US. I got plenty of night practice during my Private pilot training. And if I was going to bother with something like VRF on top, I'd just get the instrument rating. I'd never want to be "on top" in a VFR aircraft.

To N1684T,
I'm not really after the pursuit of really high pay. I just want a job that I enjoy doing. All I'd really ask of it is being able to pay the bills with flying. That's about all anyone can really want out of a job. Anything else is just icing on the cake. Out of curiosity, if there isn't going to be a pilot shortage, how come there are so many sources saying that there will be? It makes it tough knowing what to believe when you hear so many drastically different things. As far as time, money, away times from home, etc...that's a pretty grim and discouraging picture you painted there. I know that this stuff comes with the territory but is it really that bad?

[seaniam81]

As far as time, money, away times from home, etc...that's a pretty grim and discouraging picture you painted there. I know that this stuff comes with the territory but is it really that bad?

It can be. Just to give you an idea. When I was working for an airline in Northern Ontario, the pilots rotated 2 weeks on 2 weeks off. During that time "on" they flew til they're monthly limits. In fact at the end of the two weeks we were trying to schedule routes and times just so the pilots could stay legal. Even then we had to phone customers and tell them we couldn't fly up until the day or two while we hunted down the next pilot in the rotation. Money wise the captains flying the big boys $100,000/year and were hand bombing the cargo off. The captains of the single engines making 40,000ish? i think? anyways again hand bomb off, and deal with passengers. Oh and they guys just out of an aviation school or just got their CPL made (then) 9/hr working 40-60 hour work weeks, in the hanger hand bombing cargo on and off for a year before moving into the f/o seat on the single engine. Oh and last thing, 4-5 hour drive at 80-100kph just to goto wal-mart. Nearest big city 6 hours min.

If you asked any of those ground guys who moved up into the planes what they thought... Well I'm sure you'd get a lot of 4 letter words but they wouldn't change what they did.

But on the other hand, my PPL instructor got his instructors license when he was late 30's, put some time in instructing, something like 2 to 3 years, and then got his dream job of flying biz jets.

Or a girl I know got her CPL, then float, and then when to Northern Manitoba and worked for a float plane outfit. Her first year (spring to fall) she worked the dock loading Beavers with drums of fuel and luggage, and generally heavy crap, she got some flying time in. Second year she flew full time in the Beavers. Last year they asked her to come back and be their Chief Pilot.

Of course I have more stories of people I've known and meet during my time working in aviation, so if there is not enough motivation let me know.

[CAPFlyer]

When I started my flight training in 2000 at the University of North Dakota (a great school by the way), there was a projection that in 2005 there would be a need for almost 300,000 pilots in the US alone as the Baby Boom generation reached age 60 and began forced retirement. However, as I was taking my first classes on aviation business and management and started accessing industry publications, I started to realize there was a massive bubble forming. Lots of new "startup" airlines, airplanes averaging 75%-80% load, and the ever-increasing noise of those guys supposed to retire at 60 pushing for the mandatory age to be raised. To me and more than a few of the guys around me, there wasn't going to be those 300,000 jobs available. The historic cycle showed we'd be on the down side of a cycle about the time we were getting ready to move from the base level cargo hack jobs up into the regionals. I had issues with my loans and the UND Business Office and ended up leaving school in the spring of 2001 and it ended up being probably the best thing I did because even had Sept. 11th not happened, I would have been looking for a job when no jobs were available. As it is, most of the guys who I knew and did persevere, started out at ~$18,000 a year, going up to only $20,000 or $25,000 their second. They had to have second and third jobs (mostly non-flying ones) to be able to pay the bills. Only a couple I know are now working for airlines (cargo or passenger). Many have moved on to other industries. They spent $75,000+ on their training and got basically nothing. Most have defaulted on their loans as well, so their credit is shot and that only makes it worse.

There will be a need for pilots. But it won't be as big as is projected, it never has been. Many of those needs will be overseas (there is still a huge demand for US certificated pilots to fly for overseas airlines as some foreign airlines are exclusively manned by US Citizen aircrew). But if you want to make money flying or have a "smooth ride", you probably won't get it. If you want to fly, fly. Get your private, get your instrument. Maybe even get your commercial. But find a job that will allow you to fly for fun and maybe pick up some work flying on the side. Don't try to make your living at it. Until the industry makes some significant changes to the training paradigm, you'll never have fun flying for a living anymore.

[N1684T]

Hello,Flyboy4612
I really hesitated posting at first with the negative comment's,don't mean it to be discouraging. Bare in mind I never lost the passion of flying, the experiences I would not trade for anything.
Keep in mind that all this projected pilot shortage,regardless of where it come's from is stemed from Aviation School's and Universities it order to get more participation in their programs,bunch of hype,oversea's Airline recruiting,even bigger hype.
Sean aluded to the more ratings and endorsements you can attain the better off you are going to be,that's for sure.
Chris pointed out the professionial pilots having too compensate income with multiple outside jobs,all to common reality.

Don't give up on the dream,it can happen for you.
Mark S.

[Jshek]

Try talking to your current flight school about getting a night and vfr over the top rating, as they are the first steps towards a commercial. I would also talk to them about getting you started on a commercial, because once it's started a lot of your rental time can go towards the hour requirements. My current instructor/guy I rent from keeps hounding me about that too.

Since when do you need a VFR OTT for a Commercial license in Canada?

Also look into Cathay Pacific, a friend of mine from Montreal took that route. Even if you have hours, they start you right back from the beginning, send you to Australia, you redo all of your training from start to finish. Then you start as a cruise relief Captain on a 744 or 777. Thats how it worked for him anyways and he only had 800 hours.

Good luck to you!

And if you really want a challenge go rotary. I'm happy I switched before i finished my fixed wing PPL

[seaniam81]

Since when do you need a VFR OTT for a Commercial license in Canada?

Never said it was. Just said it was one of the first steps towards one. Since you can use the 10 IFR hours towards the CPL IFR requirement. So many people get their PPL, then Night, and lastly VFR OTT, and all those hours will count towards the CPL hour requirements.