The A2A Simulations Community

Hi everyone,

This is my first post in the A2A forum, although I've owned the Cub and Spitfire (+Accusim) for a long time now and think A2A is the best thing ever to happen to FSX, airplane-wise.

However, one question on the Cub. I have recently gotten type instruction in a PA-18/Super Cub (in real life), and there is one really marked difference between the A2A Cub and a real taildragger: The real plane simple doesn't just run straight after landing! Now I realize that we're talking about different airplanes here, but I am reasonably sure that also the J-3 shouldn't just run straight after touchdown like a tricycle gear plane, especially not on paved runways.
I came upon this because I got back to the A2A Cub after my PA-18 flight, wanting to use FSX for practicing the dance on those pedals... but was a bit disappointed to find that I don't get any opportunity to do that. Never realized it before, because I didn't know what to expect.

Is there a switch I'm missing? Can the A2A J-3 made to behave more realistically on the ground, to become usable for actual training?

From my time in tail draggers they all fly differently. I have flown a Jodel D.11, Piper PA-18, Cessna 180 and Citabria which all handle very differently. The 180 for example your doing large rudder inputs on the take off compared with the Cub. It wouldn't surprise me if the J-3 handles differently from the PA-18... Good to see people flying some Real aircraft in the world!!!!

Benthepilot wrote:From my time in tail draggers they all fly differently. I have flown a Jodel D.11, Piper PA-18, Cessna 180 and Citabria which all handle very differently. The 180 for example your doing large rudder inputs on the take off compared with the Cub. It wouldn't surprise me if the J-3 handles differently from the PA-18... Good to see people flying some Real aircraft in the world!!!!

I get that point about handling differences of planes, and I intend to fly a real J-3 as soon as I get the opportunity

However I simply cannot believe that the Cub'll just run straight on a paved runway; I've read a book recently written by a guy who rounded the world in a RV-8 he'd built, and to brush up on his taildragger skills he got himself a J-3. In addition, looking at the PA-18 compared to the a Cub I would be very surprised if they handled completely differently on the ground.

They will behave very different given the large engine up front compared to the lawn mower engine in the original cub

Please check your settings in FSX (realism slider can not be 100% to the realism side so can sometimes need a good drag to make sure for example) as the A2A cub and even the default aircraft should not run straight down the runway but will go to one side etc from torque.




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Sometimes I have the opportunity to fly the club member's J-3 and it flies almost exactly as A2A's. it has a little more power and climbs a little bit faster. But the landing behaviour is quite similar. Don't forget, FSX runways are perfectly flat, no compareably bumps, no weeds growing through the tarmac, the weather and all above the wind simulation (buildings, trees) of fsx is more or less unreal... don't forget those circumstances.. of course you won't be able to programm a perfect simulation, you will never be able to simulate the FEELING of a real flight on PC, but IMO A2A did a damn great job despite the FSX and offiice chair limits... ^^

Greets,
Marc

MarcE wrote:Sometimes I have the opportunity to fly the club member's J-3 and it flies almost exactly as A2A's. it has a little more power and climbs a little bit faster. But the landing behaviour is quite similar. Don't forget, FSX runways are perfectly flat, no compareably bumps, no weeds growing through the tarmac, the weather and all above the wind simulation (buildings, trees) of fsx is more or less unreal... don't forget those circumstances.. of course you won't be able to programm a perfect simulation, you will never be able to simulate the FEELING of a real flight on PC, but IMO A2A did a damn great job despite the FSX and offiice chair limits... ^^

I've no issue with the feel of flight of any A2A plane at all, on the contrary! What I've yet to experience in FSX though is a ground loop, or even the tendency of a plane to start one - and I'm regularly landing on uneven grass strips and with crosswind.
If this doesn't work with the FSX engine then that's the way it is - but I was thinking if anyone can get this right, it would be A2A.
The only flight simulation that I know that can be challenging in this respect is Rise of Flight; but FSX would make a much better practice platform for real life flying...

(I'm flying FSX with every realism setting on 'max')

Have you flown with the tundra tires? They grip the ground more and have a tendency to nose over the plane if not careful.

n421nj wrote:Have you flown with the tundra tires? They grip the ground more and have a tendency to nose over the plane if not careful.

My concern isn't about pitch motion but about yaw.
Seems to be a common problem in FSX though, I've yet to find a plane that doesn't roll like on rails once firmly on the ground...

Dooga wrote:

n421nj wrote:Have you flown with the tundra tires? They grip the ground more and have a tendency to nose over the plane if not careful.

My concern isn't about pitch motion but about yaw.
Seems to be a common problem in FSX though, I've yet to find a plane that doesn't roll like on rails once firmly on the ground...

I do second this, I'm nowhere near as 'on edge' with the constant little rudder inputs landing this thing as I am with the real plane...

To use Damien DelGaizo's analogy, a fast taxi in a tailwheeler should feel like balancing a pole on your fingers... In FSX I guess it just doesn't.

Hm... glad that I'm not alone on this.

Does anyone know whether it is at all possible in FSX to make tailwheel aircraft behave realistically on the ground? And if so, why it's not done? Or is there any taildragger add-on out there that can be used for proper training?

We realize that the original Cub wheel has springs on it and further is directly linked to the rudders right? To my knowledge it's not free castoring. If I am wrong I don't mind being corrected but that would easily account for why she's so easy.

Just wanted to add I have never seen any FSX addon simulate ground loops properly. Interesting enough I have seen Microsoft Flight simulate one...

Can anyone here speak up who's flown a J-3 in real life? Unfortunately I can only speak for the PA-18 so far, and I do not know if/how they differ regarding to their suspension arrangements.

The PA-18 definitely doesn't roll straight though, in that middle speed range between touchdown and normal taxi speed...

I have about 15 hours in a J-3. You can never ever stop flying the any airplane and especially tailwheel airplanes, until the chocks are in and the airplane has been secured.

I'm not sure if A2A can do anything about the stability as I think FSX is just too stable, but that's just my guess about the FSX mechanics. I do wish it would be possible to simulate this.

In a RW J-3, you can do a fast taxi at about 30mph just to let the tail lift up in the air on its own and then reduce power to idle. Once that power comes off you will need to move the rudder pedals a lot more with many small rapid touches to keep the aircraft tracking straight. It is much like balancing a broomstick on your palm. You definitely do not want to make a few big swings but rather lots of little adjustments to stay in place. Damian actually makes you do this drill with a broomstick before the first time you operate a tailwheel aircraft to help you mentally prepare for it and it works.

I find the airplane is a little more tame on turf, even bumpy turf, than on asphalt. On asphalt the tires get a lot more grip and therefore will cause more yaw instead of sideslip.

Once the airplane has slowed down and the tail has stalled and you are holding the stick full back with the tailwheel firmly on the ground you get significantly more yaw control. However you really can't stop flying the airplane as a good gust or a hard turn can pop out the clutch on the tailwheel leaving you with very little yaw control.

I find the PA-18 to be much easier than the J-3 with tracking straight. I believe it has a wider track than the J-3 so that is probably a big factor.

The Stearman is like a broken shopping cart! If you hesitate on the rudder even for a second it bites very quickly both on takeoffs and landings.

Hi all,

I don't have any real time in any taildraggers (I've got about 12 hrs in the 152 & 172) so all I know is trike ground handling for sure. However, I've compared the A2A Accusim Cub and the default FSX Cub and maybe reality is somewhere in between? I've made a bunch of x-wind touchdowns w/ the A2A Cub (some better than others) but I can always catch it and have yet to do a groundloop thank goodness. The FSX Cub is a different story. I can get it down pretty well in calm, but in even a small to moderate x-wind heaven help you if you don't get it EXACTLY RIGHT and PERFECTLY straight, if not then it seems like you are ground looping no matter what you do (at least in my experience). Is it really that easy to groundloop in a taildragger in reality? Or is the A2A at least somewhat more accurate on the ground at touchdown (groundloop if you bungle it fairly badly)?

Recently acquired the J3 and find the same docile handling as you all have described, has any one attempted to change settings in the config file or wouldn't thatbmake any difference.
Just looking for a realistic modeling