Fire after take-off...

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francesco.doenz
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Fire after take-off...

Post by francesco.doenz »

I took off yesterday night pretty late and was tired, so I forgot to open completely the cowls, and a few seconds after lift off I saw fire coming from the front underside, I scanned my instruments and noticed the CHT was just above the green. What was burning and where in the engine?
Thanks again in advance for your inputs!
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Tug002
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Re: Fire after take-off...

Post by Tug002 »

I don't have that aircraft so I am just guessing but I would think a broken oil line, or fuel line. Just a guess.

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Tug :)

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Lewis - A2A
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Re: Fire after take-off...

Post by Lewis - A2A »

I'd be agreeing with Tug but I cant be sure. What where all your settings?

thanks,
Lewis
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DHenriques_
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Re: Fire after take-off...

Post by DHenriques_ »

Lewis - A2A wrote:I'd be agreeing with Tug but I cant be sure. What where all your settings?

thanks,
Lewis
Accusim strikes again :-))))))))))))
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francesco.doenz
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Re: Fire after take-off...

Post by francesco.doenz »

Well, manifold around 50, RPM around 3000, I know it's not professional but I just wanted to fly for a few minutes to forget the day before bed, and tired was careless, cowlfaps near closed, to much power, to step and too slow...and when I switched to outside view I saw the flames coming out the underside of the front, I must admit the illusion or simulation of the flames was really amazing! Accusim is really impressing! But I am curious on what mechanically was burning in this situation? I have several books on engine, and one about the wasp, but could not find an answer...
Thanks again in advance, I do not want to clutter the forum with just a "thank you post" after your help.
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batt
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Re: Fire after take-off...

Post by batt »

francesco.doenz wrote:Well, manifold around 50, RPM around 3000, I know it's not professional but I just wanted to fly for a few minutes to forget the day before bed, and tired was careless, cowlfaps near closed, to much power, to step and too slow...and when I switched to outside view I saw the flames coming out the underside of the front, I must admit the illusion or simulation of the flames was really amazing! Accusim is really impressing! But I am curious on what mechanically was burning in this situation? I have several books on engine, and one about the wasp, but could not find an answer...
Thanks again in advance, I do not want to clutter the forum with just a "thank you post" after your help.
Here's my hypothetical, two-bit, and possibly specious postmortem as to your engine fire. Please take with a grain of salt and a little bit of fun as I know little about how the Pratt & Whitney R-2800 is put together and what it can actually take.

Overheated cylinder head temperature led to detonation which in turn led to pre-ignition within some of the cylinders. The extreme pressures caused by ignition early in the compression stroke (screemingly high with the manifold pressure already at 50 psi during takeoff) caused the piston rings in some of those cylinders to fail, allowing high pressure fuel/oil/air mixture to enter the crankcase. In one cylinder the piston head itself was completely holed through. As the crankcase vent was unable to accommodate the excessive pressures alone, a number of gaskets and O-rings throughout the crankcase failed including one on the lowest cylinder/crankcase seal on the forward bank which allowed fuel/oil mix to spray out and flow on to the now glowing hot cylinder heads beneath that location, thereby causing the engine fire.

There it is, two bit as I said. :lol: Maybe someone else can come up with a better story.

Nice little article btw on detonation/pre-ignition here: https://www.savvyanalysis.com/articles/ ... e-ignition
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francesco.doenz
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Re: Fire after take-off...

Post by francesco.doenz »

Thanks very much for your link, it is very well explained!
I read a series of papers on engines which I also found excellent, John Deakin's Engine-Related Columns,

http://www.avweb.com/news/pelican/182544-1.html

Higly recommended for newbies like me, easy to understand and written with humour, a little bit like "Private Pilot's Handbook by Machado, also recommended!
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Skycat
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Re: Fire after take-off...

Post by Skycat »

I've had all of my B-17's engines catch fire over England because I forgot the 'automixture' box was ticked in FSX.
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Tug002
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Re: Fire after take-off...

Post by Tug002 »

Skycat wrote:I've had all of my B-17's engines catch fire over England because I forgot the 'automixture' box was ticked in FSX.
I didn't have an engine fire yesterday in my B-17 but I did mess up the props and belly among other things when I didn't do my check before landing and had not lowered the landing gear :shock: what a mess :evil:

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Tug :)

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Piper_EEWL
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Re: Fire after take-off...

Post by Piper_EEWL »

Tug002 wrote: I didn't have an engine fire yesterday in my B-17 but I did mess up the props and belly among other things when I didn't do my check before landing and had not lowered the landing gear :shock: what a mess :evil:
Hehe. Been there before. Not with th B-17 (yet :wink: ) but with the Mustang. I wonder if you would get a discount at the engine shop with all four engines need an overhaul. Something like: "Overhaul 4 pay 3" :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

Good thing we don't have to pay for our screw-ups in the sim!

Happy flying!
B377&COTS, J3 Cub, B-17G, Spitfire, P-40, P-51D, C172, C182, Pa28, Pa24, T-6 Texan, L-049&COTS, Bonanza V35B

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Tug002
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Re: Fire after take-off...

Post by Tug002 »

Piper_EEWL wrote:
Tug002 wrote: I didn't have an engine fire yesterday in my B-17 but I did mess up the props and belly among other things when I didn't do my check before landing and had not lowered the landing gear :shock: what a mess :evil:
Hehe. Been there before. Not with th B-17 (yet :wink: ) but with the Mustang. I wonder if you would get a discount at the engine shop with all four engines need an overhaul. Something like: "Overhaul 4 pay 3" :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

Good thing we don't have to pay for our screw-ups in the sim!

Happy flying!
I lucked out and only had to replace 3 engines as the crank in #2 was still good. All of the others had twisted cranks :oops: Still building up hours on #2 :D

Keep smiling
Tug :)

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Piper_EEWL
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Re: Fire after take-off...

Post by Piper_EEWL »

Tug002 wrote: I lucked out and only had to replace 3 engines as the crank in #2 was still good. All of the others had twisted cranks :oops: Still building up hours on #2 :D
That's what I call positive attitude :D How many hours do you have on the Fortress?

Happy flying
B377&COTS, J3 Cub, B-17G, Spitfire, P-40, P-51D, C172, C182, Pa28, Pa24, T-6 Texan, L-049&COTS, Bonanza V35B

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Tug002
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Re: Fire after take-off...

Post by Tug002 »

Piper_EEWL wrote:
Tug002 wrote: I lucked out and only had to replace 3 engines as the crank in #2 was still good. All of the others had twisted cranks :oops: Still building up hours on #2 :D
That's what I call positive attitude :D How many hours do you have on the Fortress?

Happy flying
I lost over 100 hours when I first installed it and had to reinstall FSX but on the log I have now just coming up to 400 hours on the air frame and about 140 of that on #2. I have had some other mishaps which caused damage :oops: . I have my overhaul time set to 300 instead of 1000 so things wear out a little faster to make it more interesting. Gotta love the accusim :D I would have more hours on it but I try to fly everything equal 172 has about 120 hours P-51 a little over 200 and the Comanche around 100.

Keep smiling
Tug :)

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Piper_EEWL
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Re: Fire after take-off...

Post by Piper_EEWL »

Tug002 wrote:I lost over 100 hours when I first installed it and had to reinstall FSX but on the log I have now just coming up to 400 hours on the air frame and about 140 of that on #2. I have had some other mishaps which caused damage :oops: . I have my overhaul time set to 300 instead of 1000 so things wear out a little faster to make it more interesting. Gotta love the accusim :D I would have more hours on it but I try to fly everything equal 172 has about 120 hours P-51 a little over 200 and the Comanche around 100.
Bummer that you lost the hours on the engines. But oh well. Just got to build more hours then I guess :wink:
I know the "problem" (I know it's a luxury one) of distributing the time between the Accusim birds. Sometimes I think I should flip a coin to choose which one to fly :D
B377&COTS, J3 Cub, B-17G, Spitfire, P-40, P-51D, C172, C182, Pa28, Pa24, T-6 Texan, L-049&COTS, Bonanza V35B

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Tug002
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Re: Fire after take-off...

Post by Tug002 »

I try to pick the aircraft according on the mood I am in on any given day, or just take all of them up for a short flight time permitting. Always a good time with them all. I would like to get the 377 but with the Canadian dollar he way it is it will be a while before I do. I usually try to fly aircraft that will take off and land on a 3991 ft runway. Don't know what the stats on the 377 are though but would give it a try :P

Keep smiling
Tug :)

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