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And do the other a2a aircraft have these issues? B-17, P-47, Cub ? I only have the Stratocruiser. Did somebody in this getting-very-long thread say that they similarly run out of rudder on the B-17?

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1)i7 980x 4.35 ghz, gtx 470s SLI, Matrox th2go, Creative x-fi
2)i7 2600k, Gigabyte z68x, gtx 285s sli

I just did a test flight with the B-17 and in there the slip instrument works as it should.

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Happy Landings
- Patrick

The B-17 slip behavior is correct. Accuracy is a question for another day.

Best regards,
Robin.

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A2A/AccuSim. 'nuff said!

He he! Check this video (@7:50):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QaT6J0ITzpY

Scott performs a side slip in the Cub. Turn coordination is a problem in the Stratocruiser, but opposite rudder and ailerons doesn't work at all in the 377.

Agreed. It seems the Strat is a unique case.

Best regards,
Robin.

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A2A/AccuSim. 'nuff said!

I don't really want to stir the pot up anymore by bringing up another issue, but I figure that now that the Captain of the Ship update is coming, this plane will never be updated again, so its now or never. And since we are talking about Yaw behavior....

You can lose 2 engines on one side and the amount of Yawing moment generated is quite a bit less than expected. Assymetric thrust just doesn't seem to be tugging too much. Maybe that is related to the same slipping/turning issue we are facing here, maybe not, but I thought I would throw that out there. It makes the loss of an engine rather undramatic.

I don't want to jump to conclusions about the 'problem', and I'm sure there are some that don't even believe there is a problem (I wasn't quite sure when I opened the thread, for instance). But I think the issue with the assymetric thrust not being very much an issue has to do with the larger issues regarding the Lateral behavior of this aircraft, that we are discussing in this thread. Hopefully it doesn't require a major rework of those portions of the FDE to bring the lateral behavior in line with what it was historically.

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1)i7 980x 4.35 ghz, gtx 470s SLI, Matrox th2go, Creative x-fi
2)i7 2600k, Gigabyte z68x, gtx 285s sli

I might as well post it....................

Engine failure is a big deal due to the drag of the prop. It would be nice if for once there was a realistic difference in behavior between a feathered and unfeathered prop in addition to bigjuicyspider's remarks...

I'll go back to descent planning in the Strat now (no, I still screw up straight-in approaches and end up hot despite my best efforts)...

Best regards,
Robin.

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A2A/AccuSim. 'nuff said!

A big part of the problem is the huge side area of the fuselage plus the up-sweep of the fuselage bottom at the rear. As a consequence, a big percentage of the fuselage side area is ahead of the CG. In some flight/crosswind configurations it seems to do the opposite of weather vaneing. This is probably more prototypical than not. Its especially unstable to gusty tailwinds off the rear quarter. For example, with high velocity tailwinds off the right rear quarter I have found that the aircraft is stabilized with reduced thrust on the right side and some right rudder trim. CG is best kept at 25% or just a little forward of that. Also, banking under these conditions can be unstable, probably because the wing is blanking part of the forward fuselage. I suspect that a lot of this behavior is close to prototypical and probably has a lot to do with some of the aircraft reactions that seem to be the opposite of what you would expect. If I am right in these conclusions then A2A has done a marvelous job of modeling the B377.

As for landing I have found that runway alignment is critical. You have so little rudder authority to correct for crosswinds that you have to be going straight down the runway. Do what you can to keep it on track with slight banking more so than rudder. Even if you touch down on one main gear they will sometimes still applaud. I try to come over the threshold at no more than 100 ft and 100 kts, full flaps and about 15 inches of mp I use differential braking plus thrust reverse even if I have a lot of runway. I get a complement from the co pilot most of the time, manage mostly to keep it on the runway, and occasionally get applause. I would recommend considering the lack of rudder authority that anyone who is serious about flying the B Beast invest in the ability to control each engine individually. Furthermore, I don't think the above is the fault of the sim, its the fault of the actually aircraft.

I have close to 900 hours in the Stat, What I relate comes from experience plus some basic aerodynamic knowledge, even though I am not a pilot in the real world. As for those who are concerned that it is too difficult, it is not a hard airplane to fly, but it is hard to fly well, and will be even more of a challenge with COTS. I am really looking forward to it. I have 71 passenger waiting at SFO gate 8A to fly to St Maartin, and no airplane to take them. Lets get it on!

(it is not a hard airplane to fly, but it is hard to fly well.)
I think Bullfox's statement there is right on the money. Wow alot of hours logged in the old girl.

Thanks for sharing your knowledge and experience bullfox

Best Regards
Mark S.

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Boeing B-17G Flying Fortress-Accusimed/Boeing 377 Stratocruiser-COTS/ Piper Cub-Accusimed
Windows Vista 32 Bit/Quad Core 2.4GHz/4GB Ram/Nvidia 8800GTX

I wish I could agree that this could all be just a peculiarity that has been accurately modelled, but I can't. The behaviors being seen here are just too odd.

Just for the sake of argument, Bullfox, let us forget about coordinated turns. Go ahead and play with slips and skids, just like some of the examples that people are reporting. Flying level and trimmed, kick in sustained full left rudder, but hold the wings level. How much aileron (or how little aileron) does it take to keep your wings level? What is the ball doing? Where is your nose trending to?

Does it really feel correct to you??

Here is another exercise: Set yourself up in level flight, properly trimmed with a relatively high amount of throttles..something over 40 inches. Now grab a hold of throttle 1 and 2 and pull them to idle. Tell us how much rudder you need to keep the plane from yawing. Answer: None. So you have 2 fifteen foot diameter windmills on your left side and you don't need to apply any rudder? And your ball is centered. A peculiarity of the Real Aircraft, perhaps?

Don't mean to be blunt, ladies, but I'm convinced that the lateral behavior of this plane is not accurate. If it is accurate, well, then I guess you can all throw pies in my face. Sorry guys, we all want to love our Stratocruisers, nobody more than me.

The A2A people said that this is something they are looking into, so thats that.

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1)i7 980x 4.35 ghz, gtx 470s SLI, Matrox th2go, Creative x-fi
2)i7 2600k, Gigabyte z68x, gtx 285s sli

bigjuicyspider-I don't want to interfere on this topic,because I want to read what you and bullfox talk about this.
Try this and tell me what happens?
1). Establish level trimed flight at around 1,000ft AGL,approx. 150knts.,at around 30" Manifold,RPM 25-2600.
2). Step on left rudder(don't kick) slowley too full rudder stop and hold altitude the best you can. What happens to the wings? Also vise-versa with right rudder. What happens?

Best Regards
Mark S.

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Boeing B-17G Flying Fortress-Accusimed/Boeing 377 Stratocruiser-COTS/ Piper Cub-Accusimed
Windows Vista 32 Bit/Quad Core 2.4GHz/4GB Ram/Nvidia 8800GTX

@Mark: I'll try that here, though on my last test the wings wanted to roll LEFT. This is incorrect (normal reaction is a roll to the right with left rudder due to dihedral effect). I shall confirm this, though it fits with the reversed turn direction as a response to slip. Something is "wired" "backwards" here... I think we are close to what it may be...

@bigjuicyspider:

Very interesting. Could be the result of how the engines are aligned in FS though in order to modify ground handling behavior or in-flight behavior with engine-out (I have seen this before). Guessing there though... Will test.

Best regards,
Robin.

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A2A/AccuSim. 'nuff said!

To put is a simple as possible: an airliner that loses rudder authority in a speed range where it's needed the most, and that requires landing with strong aileron input, balancing on one wheel at 100 kts on touch-down, can't be right!

Apart from the losing rudder authority part, the rest would be quite accurate depending on the crosswind.

The Fokker 27 (turboprop) would kill a lot of people due to ineffective rudder single-engine. It was also under-powered. The gear extends in 40 seconds, but retracts in only 8 seconds, in the event of engine failure during takeoff (the gear adds so much drag it can't fly single-engine at low speeds). Its performance single-engine was marginal. It took great skill to fly; something many jet jockeys lack today. You were limited to approx. 8000 ft single-engine, compared to 25000 ft with two.

Best regards,
Robin.

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A2A/AccuSim. 'nuff said!

Maybe, but in this case it happens in any wind situation, including no wind at all! It can't handle adverse yaw and it can't keep the aircraft on the runway. And the rudder isn't just ineffective, it doesn't work at all when it's needed the most! Regardless whether it is on one, two, three or four engines. As I have said: this can't be right!