Flat spin

[Tug002]

While flying the B-17 yesterday I encountered engine troubles with #2 and had to shut it down. I was at 28,000 ft shut down the engine and feathered it. all was well for about 15 mins then the aircraft went into a flat spin which I could not recover from. I disengaged the auto pilot put the aircraft into a shallow dive to increase the airspeed which it did but every time that I started to pull back on the yoke to recover the airspeed would drop again and it would go back into a flat spin. Almost as if the wings had iced up on the aircraft, which by the way the de-icing was not turned on. I am confused as to why this happened as I was with the understanding that icing was not modelled into the aircraft. I am now officially a wrecked B-17 at the bottom of Lake Ontario just south west of Toronto.
Any suggestions as to what happened would be appreciated.

Keep smiling
Tug

[Piper_EEWL]

Oh no! That sucks. Maybe you can restore your .dar file

Are you using a weather engine? Maybe that's where the possible icing came from? Did you notice any other problems on the plane except the engine failure before the crash??

[Tug002]

Just using the weather engine that is in FSX set up for local weather and updated every 15 mins. Usually accurate to about 2 deg C. Noticed no other problems other than the #2 eng.

Keep smiling
Tug

[Piper_EEWL]

Mhh. I was thinking about ASN. Because I think ASN provides the option for airframe icing. But if you're using FSX standard weather that's not an issue I think.

Do you have the crash detection turned on? I had a mid air collision with the PMDG MD-11 before that caused a crash. Maybe that's what happened?

[robert41]

What was your IAS when going into the spin?
The only icing issues I have had was when it is snowing out. Then the de-icer is a must.

[boris4356]

While flying the B-17 yesterday I encountered engine troubles with #2 and had to shut it down. I was at 28,000 ft shut down the engine and feathered it. all was well for about 15 mins then the aircraft went into a flat spin which I could not recover from. I disengaged the auto pilot put the aircraft into a shallow dive to increase the airspeed which it did but every time that I started to pull back on the yoke to recover the airspeed would drop again and it would go back into a flat spin. Almost as if the wings had iced up on the aircraft, which by the way the de-icing was not turned on. I am confused as to why this happened as I was with the understanding that icing was not modelled into the aircraft. I am now officially a wrecked B-17 at the bottom of Lake Ontario just south west of Toronto.
Any suggestions as to what happened would be appreciated.

Keep smiling
Tug

Hi Tug,
If you have a look at this topic http://a2asimulations.com/forum/viewtop ... 29&t=36886 it will show that icing is modelled in the B-17, and that is probably a good explanation as to why you could have went into a flat spin. I know icing is modelled in FSX weather, but not very well. If you have a 3rd party weather engine, and install the anti-ice gauge, icing is modeled much better.

In a real A/C you can see the icing, but in the sim you cannot. This is where the gauge comes in. When icing is detected, it will flash in blue. If you don't turn on wing and prop de-ice, it will eventually turn yellow and then red.

I have Flight Sim Global Real Weather(FSGRW) which models icing very well. I experimented, and let the icing go without turning anti ice on. When it was in the blue, the A/C started slowing down and was loosing altitude. When it got into the yellow, it was loosing altitude at an alarming rate. I then turned on wing and prop de-ice, and it started to recover. If I had let it go much longer and into the red, I would have fallen out of the sky like a rock.

The anti icer guage will work in FSX weather, just not as realistic as with a 3rd party weather engine.

Bill

[Tug002]

What was your IAS when going into the spin?
The only icing issues I have had was when it is snowing out. Then the de-icer is a must.

My ias was 150 mph at 28,000 ft. The sky was hazy which made me think that it was ice and I had no de-icing on. I turned it on as I went into the spin which would be too late, nose down gained speed back to 200 mph started a slow pull back on the yoke to recover but as I was attempting recovery the airspeed would drop to about 110 mph quickly which makes me think it was ice.

Keep smiling
Tug

[Tug002]

While flying the B-17 yesterday I encountered engine troubles with #2 and had to shut it down. I was at 28,000 ft shut down the engine and feathered it. all was well for about 15 mins then the aircraft went into a flat spin which I could not recover from. I disengaged the auto pilot put the aircraft into a shallow dive to increase the airspeed which it did but every time that I started to pull back on the yoke to recover the airspeed would drop again and it would go back into a flat spin. Almost as if the wings had iced up on the aircraft, which by the way the de-icing was not turned on. I am confused as to why this happened as I was with the understanding that icing was not modelled into the aircraft. I am now officially a wrecked B-17 at the bottom of Lake Ontario just south west of Toronto.
Any suggestions as to what happened would be appreciated.

Keep smiling
Tug

Hi Tug,
If you have a look at this topic http://a2asimulations.com/forum/viewtop ... 29&t=36886 it will show that icing is modelled in the B-17, and that is probably a good explanation as to why you could have went into a flat spin. I know icing is modelled in FSX weather, but not very well. If you have a 3rd party weather engine, and install the anti-ice gauge, icing is modeled much better.

In a real A/C you can see the icing, but in the sim you cannot. This is where the gauge comes in. When icing is detected, it will flash in blue. If you don't turn on wing and prop de-ice, it will eventually turn yellow and then red.

I have Flight Sim Global Real Weather(FSGRW) which models icing very well. I experimented, and let the icing go without turning anti ice on. When it was in the blue, the A/C started slowing down and was loosing altitude. When it got into the yellow, it was loosing altitude at an alarming rate. I then turned on wing and prop de-ice, and it started to recover. If I had let it go much longer and into the red, I would have fallen out of the sky like a rock.

The anti icer guage will work in FSX weather, just not as realistic as with a 3rd party weather engine.

Bill

Thank you for you input and link boris4356, I wasn't sure if icing was modelled into the B-17 but now I know I will be more careful about it in the future I figured by the way the plane handled when attempting the recovery that icing was the problem and that it was an error on my part that caused the problem. Falling out of the sky like a rock is just what happened to me.

Keep smiling
Tug

[Tug002]

Mhh. I was thinking about ASN. Because I think ASN provides the option for airframe icing. But if you're using FSX standard weather that's not an issue I think.

Do you have the crash detection turned on? I had a mid air collision with the PMDG MD-11 before that caused a crash. Maybe that's what happened?

I do have the crash detection turned on but with the way things progressed I feel that it was ice that caused the problem. I was flying through a misty sky at 28,000 ft which should have clued me in to turning on the de-icing

Keep smiling
Tug

[robert41]

Took the 17 into icing conditions today. Set ground temps to 35F, dew point 15F. Severe icing from 5000 to 10000ft, no wind, no precip. At 5000ft, without any deicers on, the pitot froze immediately. After about 10-15min, I slowly started to loose airspeed, and needed to keep pitching up to hold altitude. Turning on the wing deicer, broke the wing ice immediately, and we climbed 200ft before I could level out. Turning on the prop deicers immediately broke the prop ice and the airspeed climbed back up to just under 200IAS at once. I kept the turbos at 7, 34MP, held 2250RPMs. Carb temps were happy, RPMs did not change with the icing. I never let the IAS get below 150.

[Piper_EEWL]

I didn't know that icing was modeled either!? And I can seem to recall if it was mentioned in the manual. I'll have to take a look at that. But it's good to know that it is in fact modeled. I'll have to watch out for ice more

Happy flying

Oh btw Tug did you recover your .dat file or are you starting from scratch on the B-17 hours?