B17 throttle project

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altack
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B17 throttle project

Post by altack »

Hi Guys,

having done a DC3 throttle repro that I regularly use, I'm planning to make a B17 throttle + magneto & cowl flaps box repro to interface with the A2A Accusim Flying fortress.
I already own 2 leo bodnar's BU0836 cards so I can emulate up to 64 buttons and 16 axis.
My very first question is about the variables you use with the "B-17 Input Configurator":
Are they standard FS variable I can tweak with (fully registered) FSUIPC ?

Thanks in advance for your answer and please feel free to give me your opinion/ideas about this project
Francois

PS: here is the picture of what I've already done
Image
Last edited by altack on 26 Dec 2020, 17:57, edited 1 time in total.

Gypsy Baron
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Posts: 3396
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Location: San Francisco

Re: B17 throttle project

Post by Gypsy Baron »

altack wrote:Hi Guys,

having done a DC3 throttle repro that I regularly use, I'm planning to make a B17 throttle + magneto & cowl flaps box repro to interface with the A2A Accusim Flying fortress.
I already own 2 leo bodnar's BU0836 cards so I can emulate up to 64 buttons and 16 axis.
My very first question is about the variables you use with the "B-17 Input Configurator":
Are they standard FS variable I can tweak with (fully registered) FSUIPC ?

Thanks in advance for your answer and please feel free to give me your opinion/ideas about this project
Francois

PS: here is the picture of what I've already done
Very nice!

You are aware, are you not, that with the registered version of FSUIPC you can access/tweak the local
gauge variables (L:Var) that are used.

If not, there is a FSUIPC command to "List local variables" that will spit out all the L:Var's that are
used in a particular aircraft. I've found that the A2A Accusim aircraft L:Var's are named such that
it is pretty simple to identify their use.

I'm envious of your BU0836 cards! I used an approach with FSUIPC to set up 60 to 70 virtual
switches for the B-17G and B-377.

You might have a look through this thread to see how access to L:Var's and the other
FSUIPC features can be used to "extend" the hardware limits :)

Paul

http://a2asimulations.com/forum/viewtop ... 50#p163150

altack
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Re: B17 throttle project

Post by altack »

Hi Paul,

your post is of great value indeed !
the reason lying behind my asking about the FS standard value is twofold :
firstly, by using std FS value you may use your hardware with any equivalent aircraft (i.e I use mostly my DC3 throttle with the MAAM-Sim R4D-6 but also from time to time with the superb Aerosoft Catalina or any twin reciprocating engine airplane...)
Secondly, I avoid the (steep ?) LUA use learning curve.
OK I confess this second reason is a shabby one...

But just to understand your quoted post when you're talking about the "L:Eng1FuelCutOffSwitch" for example, is it the same as the STD FS variable #66494 "TOGGLE_FUEL_VALVE_ENG1" or is it a purely A2A variable ?

Francois

Gypsy Baron
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Re: B17 throttle project

Post by Gypsy Baron »

altack wrote:Hi Paul,

your post is of great value indeed !
the reason lying behind my asking about the FS standard value is twofold :
firstly, by using std FS value you may use your hardware with any equivalent aircraft (i.e I use mostly my DC3 throttle with the MAAM-Sim R4D-6 but also from time to time with the superb Aerosoft Catalina or any twin reciprocating engine airplane...)
Secondly, I avoid the (steep ?) LUA use learning curve.
OK I confess this second reason is a shabby one...

But just to understand your quoted post when you're talking about the "L:Eng1FuelCutOffSwitch" for example, is it the same as the STD FS variable #66494 "TOGGLE_FUEL_VALVE_ENG1" or is it a purely A2A variable ?

Francois
Hello again Francois,

To answer, or not, you question...I'm not certain if the L:Var translates to the FS variable without digging
into the code.

I go with the L:Var's for the Accusim aircraft since many of the features in these aircraft often run through
additional processing to facilitate the failure code, etc. In the end, the L:Var MAY cause the FS variable
to change state, and in the case stated, most likely does.

Many functions in, say, the B17G can not be translated directly to equivalent FS offsets. The individual
engine "Start" and Mesh" functions, for instance. Thus I choose to use the L:Var's for my implementation.

In many cases there FS variables are used by the Accusim code so I code them in the "usual way"
in my FSUIPC.ini file.

When I'm building up the FSUIPC code I test the implimentation on a function by function basis
to verify that Sending a "1", or whatever, to the L:Var causes the desired result. The B_17G
Start/Mesh switches, as well as a few others are multi-state and take inputs of 0,1,2 for "Up,
Center, Down". I don't recall if any of the FS offsets have that sort of setting.

As to Lua, it's not really too difficult to get on board. The documentation provided with FSUIPC
goes a long way as far as explaining the library functions. If you've ever written any code
in BASIC or other programming languages you would have no trouble getting up to speed
with it.

As to using the same hardware on multiple aircraft, FSUIPC allows you to define custom
"Keys", "Buttons" and "Axis" assignments for each aircraft and these are "loaded" automatically
when you load the aircraft in FSX. Each section name just gets the identifier from the Aircraft.cfg
file "Title=" section appended to it to make it aircraft specific.

Code: Select all

[Buttons.Boeing Stratocruiser]
[Buttons.Boeing B-17G]
[Axes.P_51D Canadian MKIV]
[Axes.Aero L-39 Albatros]
You could easily retain the coding that you have for your current aircraft and setup
and just add new coding for additional aircraft using aircraft specific variables.

You've got some great hardware and, with your registered FSUIPC, a great utility
to go along with it. If you enjoy "tweaking", as I do, I'd recommend that you dive into
the world of "L:Var's" :)

Paul

altack
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Re: B17 throttle project

Post by altack »

OK I surrender and will follow your advice about L:Var's :wink:

About the functions I plan to hardwire here is my wishlist:

Axis :
Throttles 1 to 4
Pitch 1 to 4
Mixture 1 to 4
Turbo selector
Intercooler lever
total axis 14

Buttons:
Magnetos + masters (17 switches used)
Fuel boost pump 1 to 4 (4)
Fuel shut off valve 1 to 4 (4)
Turbo dial stop (1)
Tail lock (1)
Park brake (1)
Recognition lights R,A,G,W (4)
Formation lights (1)
Landing lights (1)
Nav lights (1)
Beacon light (1)
Strobe light (1)
Passing Light (1)
Landing Gear Up & Dn (2)
Flaps Up& Dn (2)
Feathering 1 to 4 (4)
Starter 1 to 4 (4)
Mesh 1 to 4 (4)
Cowl flaps 1 to 4 (8)
total buttons 62

Any opinion or suggestion about that choice ?

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Norforce
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Re: B17 throttle project

Post by Norforce »

Very nice work Francois
Ron
B-17 AIRFRAME 710 HRS PLUS AND CLIMBING
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TRACKIR 5 & TrackClipPro

Gypsy Baron
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Re: B17 throttle project

Post by Gypsy Baron »

altack wrote:OK I surrender and will follow your advice about L:Var's :wink:

About the functions I plan to hardwire here is my wishlist:

-SNIP-
Any opinion or suggestion about that choice ?

Yes, I do have some input for you however I'm going to be pretty busy with real life
over the next few days but I'll try to address the items in your list as I get time.

For a start, here are the L:Var's that I have set in my A2A_B17G.MCRO file:

Code: Select all

[MACROS]
1=L:Eng1_IntercoolerLever=INC
2=L:Eng2_IntercoolerLever=INC
3=L:Eng3_IntercoolerLever=INC
4=L:Eng4_IntercoolerLever=INC
5=L:Starter12Start=SET
6=L:Starter34Start=SET
7=L:Starter12Mesh=SET
8=L:Starter34Mesh=SET
13=L:Eng1_GeneratorSwitch=TOGGLE
14=L:Eng2_GeneratorSwitch=TOGGLE
15=L:Eng3_GeneratorSwitch=TOGGLE
16=L:Eng4_GeneratorSwitch=TOGGLE
17=L:OxyMaskOn=TOGGLE
18=L:Battery1Switch=SET
19=L:Battery2Switch=SET
20=L:Battery3Switch=SET
21=L:Eng1_IntercoolerLever=DEC
22=L:Eng2_IntercoolerLever=DEC
23=L:Eng3_IntercoolerLever=DEC
24=L:Eng4_IntercoolerLever=DEC
30=L:PrimerSel=SET
31=L:PrimerOn=TOGGLE
32=L:APUSwitch=TOGGLE
33=L:CowlFlapsSpeedKnob=SET
34=L:DialTurbocharger=INC
35=L:DialTurbocharger=DEC
36=L:MasterIgnitionSwitch=TOGGLE
37=L:FireEngineSelected=SET
38=L:InverterSwitch=SET
39=L:Eng1FuelCutOffSwitch=TOGGLE
40=L:Eng2FuelCutOffSwitch=TOGGLE
41=L:Eng3FuelCutOffSwitch=TOGGLE
42=L:Eng4FuelCutOffSwitch=TOGGLE
43=L:HydrModeSwitch=SET
44=L:CarbFilterOnSwitch=TOGGLE
45=L:ControlLockRudElev=SET
46=L:ControlLockAilerons=SET
47=L:BombeRelease=TOGGLE
48=L:BomberCallSwitch=TOGGLE
49=L:RadioPowerSwitch=TOGGLE
Items with the parameter "SET" generally have 3 or more states ( the passed parameter is 0,1,2 etc )
or are two-state but not "toggles".

And here is the FSUIPC.ini section that contains all my programming for my A2A B17G:

Code: Select all

!1=//---------------------- A2A B-17G CONTROL SETS ----------------

[Buttons.Boeing B-17G]
!1=//SET 0 COWL FLAP SETTINGS,HYDR PUMP MODE,CARB FILTER
0=B66C0=0 R3,14,C66329,99 ;OPEN COWL FLAPS 1
1=B66C0=0 R3,15,C66330,1 ;CLOSE COWL FLAPS 1
2=B66C0=0 R3,16,C66331,99 ;OPEN COWL FLAPS 2
3=B66C0=0 R3,17,C66332,1 ;CLOSE COWL FLAPS 2
4=B66C0=0 R3,18,C66333,99 ;OPEN COWL FLAPS 3
5=B66C0=0 R3,19,C66334,1 ;CLOSE COWL FLAPS 3
6=B66C0=0 R0,0,C66335,99 ;OPEN COWL FLAPS 4
7=B66C0=0 R0,1,C66336,1 ;CLOSE COWL FLAPS 4
8=B66C0=0 U3,14,C66330,0 ;SET COWL FLAP SWITCH TO NEUTRAL ON RELEASE
9=B66C0=0 U3,15,C66329,0 ;SET COWL FLAP SWITCH TO NEUTRAL
10=B66C0=0 U3,16,C66332,0 ;SET COWL FLAP SWITCH TO NEUTRAL
11=B66C0=0 U3,17,C66331,0 ;SET COWL FLAP SWITCH TO NEUTRAL
12=B66C0=0 U3,18,C66334,0 ;SET COWL FLAP SWITCH TO NEUTRAL
13=B66C0=0 U3,19,C66333,0 ;SET COWL FLAP SWITCH TO NEUTRAL
14=B66C0=0 U0,0,C66336,0 ;SET COWL FLAP SWITCH TO NEUTRAL
15=B66C0=0 U0,1,C66335,0 ;SET COWL FLAP SWITCH TO NEUTRAL
16=B66C0=0 R0,2,CM6:43,1 ;HYDRAULIC MODE MANUAL
17=B66C0=0 U0,2,CM6:43,0 ;HYDRAULIC MODE AUTO
18=B66C0=0 P0,3,CM6:44,0 ;CARB FILTER TOGGLE
!2=//SET 1 CONTROLS INTER-COOLER FLAPS, NAV, STROBE, UV LIGHTS
20=B66C0=1 R3,15,CM6:1,99 ;MACRO TO OPEN IC FLAPS 1
21=B66C0=1 R3,14,CM6:21,1 ;MACRO TO CLOSE IC FLAPS 1
22=B66C0=1 R3,17,CM6:2,99 ;MACRO TO OPEN IC FLAPS 2
23=B66C0=1 R3,16,CM6:22,1 ;MACRO TO CLOSE IC FLAPS 2
24=B66C0=1 R3,19,CM6:3,99 ;MACRO TO OPEN IC FLAPS 3
25=B66C0=1 R3,18,CM6:23,1 ;MACRO TO CLOSE IC FLAPS 3
26=B66C0=1 R0,1,CM6:4,99 ;MACRO TO OPEN IC FLAPS 4
27=B66C0=1 R0,0,CM6:24,1 ;MACRO TO CLOSE IC FLAPS 4
28=B66C0=1 P0,2,C66379,0 ;TOGGLE NAV LIGHTS
29=B66C0=1 P0,3,C66239,0 ;TOGGLE BEACON
!3=//SET 2 BAY DOORS, Drop Bombs, MP SELECT, TW LOCK, PANEL LIGHTS, OXYGEN, LANDING LIGHTS, STROBE
30=B66C0=2 P3,14,C65589,0 ;BOMB BAY DOORS
31=B66C0=2 P3,15,CM6:63,1 ;BOMBER CALL
32=B66C0=2 R3,16,CM6:34,80 ;MANIFOLD PRES. SELECT INC
33=B66C0=2 R3,17,CM6:35,1 ;MANIFOLD PRES. SELECT DEC
34=B66C0=2 P3,18,C66541,0 ;TAIL WHEEL LOCK
35=B66C0=2 P3,19,C66858,0 ;Autopilot View
36=B66C0=2 P0,0,C65750,0 ;PANEL LIGHTS
37=B66C0=2 P0,1,CM6:17,0 ;OXYGEN MACRO
38=B66C0=2 P0,2,C65751,0 ;LANDING LIGHTS
39=B66C0=2 R0,3,C65560,0 ;TOGGLE STROBE ( ALSO TOGGLES UV LIGHTS AT PRESENT )
!4=//SET 3 MAGNETOS, INVERTERS
40=B66C0=3 R3,14,Cx11000892,x00030001 ;MAG1 INC
41=B66C0=3 R3,15,Cx21000892,x00000001 ;MAG1 DEC
42=B66C0=3 R3,16,Cx1100092A,x00030001 ;MAG2 INC
43=B66C0=3 R3,17,Cx2100092A,x00000001 ;MAG2 DEC
44=B66C0=3 R3,18,Cx110009C2,x00030001 ;MAG3 INC
45=B66C0=3 R3,19,Cx210009C2,x00000001 ;MAG3 DEC
46=B66C0=3 R0,0,Cx11000A5A,x00030001 ;MAG4 INC
47=B66C0=3 R0,1,Cx21000A5A,x00000001 ;MAG4 DEC
48=B66C0=3 P0,2,CM6:38,0 ;INVERTER SWITCH ON
49=B66C0=3 P0,3,CM6:38,2 ;INVERTER SWITCH OFF
50=B66C0=3 U0,3,CM6:38,1 ;INVERTER SWITCH NEUTRAL
!5=//SET 4 STARTERS ENG 1 - 4 CLEAR START & MESH SET 4 PRIMER & PUMP - ALL MACROS
51=B66C0=4 P3,14,CM6:5,0 ;STARTER ENG 1 - SET PRIMER TO ENG 1 MACRO
52=B66C0=4 P3,16,CM6:5,2 ;STARTER ENG 2 - SET PRIMER TO ENG 2 MACRO
53=B66C0=4 P3,18,CM6:6,2 ;STARTER ENG 3 - SET PRIMER TO ENG 3 MACRO
54=B66C0=4 P0,0,CM6:6,0 ;STARTER ENG 4 - SET PRIMER TO ENG 4 MACRO
55=B66C0=4 P3,15,CM6:7,0 ;MESH ENG 1
56=B66C0=4 P3,17,CM6:7,2 ;MESH ENG 2
57=B66C0=4 P3,19,CM6:8,2 ;MESH ENG 3
58=B66C0=4 P0,1,CM6:8,0 ;MESH ENG 4
59=B66C0=4 P0,2,CM6:5,1 ;CLEAR STARTER 1/2
60=B66C0=4 P0,2,CM6:6,1 ;CLEAR STARTER 3/4
61=B66C0=4 P0,2,CM6:7,1 ;CLEAR MESH 1/2
62=B66C0=4 P0,2,CM6:8,1 ;CLEAR MESH 3/4
63=B66C0=4 P0,2,CM6:30,0 ;SET PRIMER SELCT TO OFF
64=B66C0=4 P0,3,CM6:31,1 ;ACTIVATE PRIMER
65=B66C0=4 P3,14,CM6:30,1 ;SET PRIMER SELCT TO ENG 1
66=B66C0=4 P3,16,CM6:30,2 ;SET PRIMER SELCT TO ENG 2
67=B66C0=4 P3,18,CM6:30,3 ;SET PRIMER SELCT TO ENG 3
68=B66C0=4 P0,0,CM6:30,4 ;SET PRIMER SELCT TO ENG 4
69=B66C0=4 P3,14,CM6:37,1 ;SET FIRE EXT. SWITCH TO ENG 1
70=B66C0=4 P3,16,CM6:37,2 ;SET FIRE EXT. SWITCH TO ENG 2
71=B66C0=4 P3,18,CM6:37,3 ;SET FIRE EXT. SWITCH TO ENG 3
72=B66C0=4 P0,0,CM6:37,4 ;SET FIRE EXT. SWITCH TO ENG 4
73=B66C0=4 P0,2,CM6:37,0 ;SET FIRE EXT. SWITCH TO OFF
!8=//SET 5 GENERATORS, FUEL PUMPS, FUEL VALVES, CONTROLS LOCK
80=B66C0=5 P3,14,C66340,0 ;TOGGLE FUEL PUMP 1
81=B66C0=5 P3,16,C66341,0 ;TOGGLE FUEL PUMP 2
82=B66C0=5 P3,18,C66342,0 ;TOGGLE FUEL PUMP 3
83=B66C0=5 P0,0,C66343,0 ;TOGGLE FUEL PUMP 4
84=B66C0=5 P3,15,CM6:39,0 ;TOGGLE ENG1 FUEL VALVE
85=B66C0=5 P3,17,CM6:40,0 ;TOGGLE ENG2 FUEL VALVE
86=B66C0=5 P3,19,CM6:41,0 ;TOGGLE ENG3 FUEL VALVE
87=B66C0=5 P0,1,CM6:42,0 ;TOGGLE ENG4 FUEL VALVE
88=B66C0=5 P0,2,CM6:45,0 ;CONTROLS LOCK OFF
89=B66C0=5 P0,2,CM6:46,0 ;CONTROLS LOCK OFF
90=B66C0=5 P0,3,CM6:45,1 ;CONTROLS LOCK ON
91=B66C0=5 P0,3,CM6:46,1 ;CONTROLS LOCK ON
!9=//SET 6  GENERATORS, RADIO POWER, PITOT HEAT, MASTER IGN, APU, BATTERIES
100=B66C0=6 P3,14,CM6:13,0 ;TOGGLE GENERATOR 1 MACRO
101=B66C0=6 P3,15,CM6:64,1 ;RADIO POWER
102=B66C0=6 P3,16,CM6:14,0 ;TOGGLE GENERATOR 2
103=B66C0=6 P3,17,C65858,0 ;PITOT HEAT
104=B66C0=6 P3,18,CM6:15,0 ;TOGGLE GENERATOR 3
105=B66C0=6 P3,19,C66535,0 ;MASTER IGNITION TOGGLE
106=B66C0=6 P0,0,CM6:16,0 ;TOGGLE GENERATOR 4
107=B66C0=6 P0,1,CM6:32,0 ;APU MACRO
108=B66C0=6 P0,2,CM6:18,1 ;BATTERY 1 ON  MACRO
109=B66C0=6 P0,2,CM6:19,1 ;BATTERY 2 ON  MACRO
110=B66C0=6 P0,2,CM6:20,1 ;BATTERY 3 ON  MACRO
111=B66C0=6 P0,3,CM6:18,0 ;BATTERY 1 OFF  MACRO
112=B66C0=6 P0,3,CM6:19,0 ;BATTERY 2 OFF  MACRO
113=B66C0=6 P0,3,CM6:20,0 ;BATTERY 3 OFF  MACRO
!10=//CONTROL SET INCREMENT/DECREMENT
120=P0,4,Cx510066C0,x00060001 ;INCREMENT 0X66C0 VALUE BY 1, MAX 6 THEN 0, CYLCLIC
121=P0,5,Cx610066C0,x00060001 ;DECREMENT 0X66C0 VALUE BY 1, MIN 0 THEN 6, CYLCLIC
122=P3,20,C1084,0 ;KILL ALL LUA PLUGINS
123=U3,20,CL17:R,0 ;RUN LUA PLUGIN 17 ( FOR THIS AIRCRAFT )
124=U3,20,CM6:33,-50 ;SET COWL FLAPS SPEED TO MINIMUM
125=P0,8,K112,8 ; Throttle to IDLE (F1)
127=B66C0=2 R3,15,Cx510066C2,x00030001 ;Execute Lua for Weapons Pack Bombs
Where you see "CM6:" followed by two numbers, that refers to the MCRO file. The first
number is the item # in the list and the second, the passed parameter.
You can also see several items that are standard FSX offsets such as:
"34=B66C0=2 P3,18,C66541,0 ;TAIL WHEEL LOCK"

The cowl flap programming might be of interest as these levers have 3 positions
with the center being "off". I have a switch programmed for "open" and another
for "closed" ( 8 in all ) and when the switches are released the "OFF" position is
programmed. The gear and flap switches also have "neutral" positions.

Magnetos use the standard FSX offsets HOWEVER, after off/1/2/both FSX has
a 5th position that will auto-start an engine. Not something one usually desires.
Thus I program the FSX offset to be incremented to a max of 3 or decremented to
a min or 0. If operated without the limits the "auto-start" occurs. This also applies
to the A2A B-377.

OK, that's about all the time I have at the moment. More later. Fell free to ask
for specifics or questions. Also check your PM messages here.

Paul

DogTailRed2
Airman First Class
Posts: 74
Joined: 11 Feb 2009, 05:53

Re: B17 throttle project

Post by DogTailRed2 »

I have two Saitek throttle quads and what I'm finding exciting with the B17 is that during take off I'm leading with either port or starboard engines to counter any swing or cross wind. It's very easy with engines and rudder to get a straight down the runway take off.

Gypsy Baron
A2A Master Mechanic
Posts: 3396
Joined: 02 Aug 2008, 17:04
Location: San Francisco

Re: B17 throttle project

Post by Gypsy Baron »

DogTailRed2 wrote:I have two Saitek throttle quads and what I'm finding exciting with the B17 is that during take off I'm leading with either port or starboard engines to counter any swing or cross wind. It's very easy with engines and rudder to get a straight down the runway take off.
Also helps with taxiing as well :)

Paul

altack
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Posts: 149
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Re: B17 throttle project

Post by altack »

Hi Guys,

thanks for your inputs !
Paul, I've got your LVars files and I'm to print the latest FSUIPC doc (mine was 3.70) to learn as much as possible about this LVar stuff.
In the meantime I received most of the needed harware (pots, On-Off and On-Off-On switches mostly) so whithin a few days I'll make a cardboard validation mock-up before cutting for good MDF panels.
Pictures will follow.

Francois

Gypsy Baron
A2A Master Mechanic
Posts: 3396
Joined: 02 Aug 2008, 17:04
Location: San Francisco

Re: B17 throttle project

Post by Gypsy Baron »

Great, Francois.

Do keep us posted on your progress.

Paul

altack
Senior Airman
Posts: 149
Joined: 21 Jun 2010, 02:25
Location: LFBO
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Re: B17 throttle project

Post by altack »

Ok,
so the mockup is done and thanks to it, I finally choose the definitive configuration:
the trottle quadrant with the magnetos & cowl flaps box altogether
plus an extra "switchbox" including the 4 feathering switches, the start + mesh switches, the beacon,nav and strobes lights switches and the intercooler lever sliding pot.
Here it is:
Image
Woodcutting is to follow shortly, stay tuned :wink:
Francois
Last edited by altack on 26 Dec 2020, 17:59, edited 1 time in total.

MTFDarkEagle
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Re: B17 throttle project

Post by MTFDarkEagle »

Nice! Looks great!
Lukas
ImageImage

altack
Senior Airman
Posts: 149
Joined: 21 Jun 2010, 02:25
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Re: B17 throttle project

Post by altack »

Thanks !
Here is a 4 hours (wood)work :
Image
I guess that was the easy part, more to come tomorow...
Last edited by altack on 26 Dec 2020, 18:00, edited 1 time in total.

svaughn01
Staff Sergeant
Posts: 303
Joined: 14 Mar 2006, 06:25

Re: B17 throttle project

Post by svaughn01 »

Looks much better than what Ive been doing :D Where did you get the mag switches? They look like the real thing. Ive been planing on just using regular 4 way rotary switches with mine, but those look great, good job :wink:
Image
Image

Image

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