The A2A Simulations Community

Greets all!

I'm starting to delve in to the world of multiplayer and formation flying and am working at earning my wings. It's become clear that in order to fly formations successfully, one needs to know how to use the autopilot.

I've been playing around with it, and can set it to hold altitude and speed, but can't figure out how to set headings, climb rate, turns, and the finer aspects of autopilot usage.

Does anyone know of a B-17 specific "how to" on this topic?

Hope to see some of you in the skies over England!

_________________
The 401st Bomb Group - Deenethorpe
www.youtube.com/401stbg
"The Best Damned Outfit in the USAAF"
http://www.401bg.com/pages_gallery/gallery_005.htm#menu

Joe perhaps this will help.
Operation of the C-1 autopilot manual for bombardiers and Pilots.
http://aafcollection.info/items/detail. ... itle!up!20

There is also a training film too called Theory of the C-1 Autopilot put out by the First Motion Picture Unit

http://www.imdb.com/company/co0037303/
and a Disney series

http://www.disneyshorts.org/wartime/index.html

_________________
Son of a U.S.A.A.F. 15th Air Force 463rd bomb group 772nd squadron B17 pilot.
Video of my dad on a B-17(So you can kind of meet him-he passed away in 2004)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bGOP53TkGtA

What a great treasure trove of info...THANKS!

_________________
The 401st Bomb Group - Deenethorpe
www.youtube.com/401stbg
"The Best Damned Outfit in the USAAF"
http://www.401bg.com/pages_gallery/gallery_005.htm#menu

I was looking on the Internet to see if those training films could be downloaded or bought somehow.
Apparently no luck so far.My friend Joe Worsley did give me a training film on DVD on the Norden Bombsight
http://www.shoestringprod.org/

This book might provide some more insight on the C-1 autopilot as well although it has more to do with extensive details on the bombsight.I don't have this book as of yet so I can't say for sure.
http://www.amazon.com/Legendary-Norden- ... 0764307231

However I did see a link here at the Minnisota Historical Society so some other films exist about the C-1 AutoPilot as well.

HONEYWELL INC.:
An Inventory of Its Records at the Minnesota Society

Check under Sound and Visual Recordings

under Movies location 151.B.20.2F Box 146

http://www.mnhs.org/library/findaids/00 ... l#series14

C-1 Auto Pilot:
Control panel, undated.
Directional stabilizer, undated.
Maintenance and service, undated.
Setting up for bombing, undated.

Perhaps if someone spent the time and effort to acquire these films (if possible) they could be quite useful as training aids
and research tools in addition to saving some history and who knows maybe one could sell a remastered version to Shoestring Educational Productions,Inc for a profit as well by doing so.

_________________
Son of a U.S.A.A.F. 15th Air Force 463rd bomb group 772nd squadron B17 pilot.
Video of my dad on a B-17(So you can kind of meet him-he passed away in 2004)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bGOP53TkGtA

Joe,

The best thing for formation flying is not to rely on auto-pilot. It will give you a false sense. Auto-pilot is good if your flying lead for long flights. But to fly off of a wing all needs to be done with proper throttle settings. You will find you are always making throttle adjustments. Maybe one of these days while in a session we can get somebody to fly straight and level and we can share a cockpit so you can see the visual sight lines you will need to fly off of paint. Once you master it, its great to go into any session and form up off somebody's wing in a very tight formation and hear their reactions. Just hit me up on MSN if your interested.

_________________

Scott "Shylock" Berge
#7 Narrator
http://www.fsxblueangels.com/

Thanks to both of you! I've only gotten in on a couple group fly sessions and, of course, I'm either going too fast, or too slow. Hence, my conjecture that auto-pilot is the key. Obviously, I just need practice - and a lot of it!

I look forward to flying with you!

Thanks!!

_________________
The 401st Bomb Group - Deenethorpe
www.youtube.com/401stbg
"The Best Damned Outfit in the USAAF"
http://www.401bg.com/pages_gallery/gallery_005.htm#menu

Anyone else having problems getting C-1 to work?

I found a section from the original manual, and I've used what was provided from A2A. Just after takeoff I warm up the C-1 Unit by flicking the main switch, lights, and servo motor. After I get to cruising altitude I then level the plane out using trim, while checking on the C-1 Unit no lights. After everything is level I engage the three switches and try initiating a turn and nothing happens.

My mechanic doesn't see anything wrong with the C-1 Unit, starting to wonder if I need a new mechanic.

_________________
WildWally

Intel i7 950
MSI x58 Platinum SLI
9 gb Patriot ram DDR3 Trichannel
2 - GTS250 1 gb in SLI (when able)
Windows 7 64 Ultimate
3 - 24" Acer HD Monitors
Triple Heads to go
TrackerIR

Hmm, something is missing in your description. First you need to turn the PDI on (or turn onto the commanded heading) inorder to have a chance to get all tell-tale lighs off. Nevertheless when all lights are off and all six switches are on there is no reason why you shouldn't be able to fly a turn in one of the three options PDI, Turn Knob or Heading Hold. I have never seen a malfunction so far - and I have used it for a couple of hours already...

Oskar

Yep.

Master switch/bar.
Tell-Tale light switch
Servo-PDI switch
Wait Ten minutes or so - according to real manual (not sure if this is modeled or not)
Then
Aileron switch
Rudder Switch
Elevator Switch
Then I try to issue turn using the turn control above the mater switch, nothing.

Am I doing something wrong? Never see lights come on either.

Should the Shift+9 AP be off or on?

_________________
WildWally

Intel i7 950
MSI x58 Platinum SLI
9 gb Patriot ram DDR3 Trichannel
2 - GTS250 1 gb in SLI (when able)
Windows 7 64 Ultimate
3 - 24" Acer HD Monitors
Triple Heads to go
TrackerIR

You have to choose which autopilot you want to use: go to the Controls (shift+3) and choose "FS Autopilot" or "C-1 Autopilot". The FS Autopilot is the default one.

regards
ROB

_________________
A2A Simulations Inc.

Not sure whether we are talking about the same thing I'm still a bit confused because you are talking about "waiting till the lights go out". Well - unless the C-1 is already fine tuned the lights will not go out by themselves. You need to calibrate the three taxes to extinguish the lights. Well, give it another try:

1.) level the A/C by means of the trims and power
2.) Turn the Master Switch (Bar) ON (no need to wait, spooling up of the gyros is not modeled)
3.) Turn the Servo-P.D.I. Switch ON
4.) Turn the Tell-tale lights ON

By now you should have a few tell-tale lights on as the A/C is not aligned with the PDI (would be a coincidence...)

5.) Center the P.D.I. (gray script on the white bottom of the C-1) by clicking on "HOLD PDI"

Now the P.D.I. becomes centered and maybe most of the tell-tale lights go out. You will see the PDI to the right of the Flux Gate being centered.

6.) Fine-tune the aileron axis to put the tell-tale light out (if still on), engage the aileron servo clutch
7.) do the same for rudder and elevator

By now all tell-tale lights should be OFF and ALL SIX switches must be ON
The P.D.I. script in the white bottom of the C-1 reads "HOLD PDI (ON)" (blue letters), and below that "CENTER" (also blue letters)

8.) Use the LEFT and RIGHT clickspots adjacent to the "CENTER" to engage a standard left or right turn (18° bank) to fine-tune a coordinated turn. Once you have it fine-tuned you don't need the tuning knobs anymore.

9.) Return the P.D.I. to "CENTER" and use the Turn Knob for manual turns. You can actually switch the P.D.I. off at this stage. Just be aware that the turn knob has an extended "Null Zone" - The reason for that being described in the manual.

To use a selected heading first syncronize the C-1 heading with the heading needle of the Flux Gate. You can scroll over the heading figure below the sript "HOLD HEADING" till it matches your actual heading. Then click on the script "HOLD HEADING" and it will switch to "HOLD HEADING (ON)" (blue letters). Now the selected heading will be followed.

If your C-1 does not work this way then something is definitely wrong with your installation.

Happy flying

Oskar

This did it, I must have missed this in all my reading somewhere.

I see lights.

I switched things on just too test in my current flight and whoa nelly, had to grab on for dear life. Should have fastened seat belts before trying such thing.
Thanks to all, and to you lonewulf47 for the detailed instructions on how to use it.

_________________
WildWally

Intel i7 950
MSI x58 Platinum SLI
9 gb Patriot ram DDR3 Trichannel
2 - GTS250 1 gb in SLI (when able)
Windows 7 64 Ultimate
3 - 24" Acer HD Monitors
Triple Heads to go
TrackerIR

Can anyone describe how to hold altitude using the C-1 Autopliot? I'll usually level off and have the B-17 trimmed, then I'll adjust the Elevator nobs so that the lights go out and engage the elevator switch but find that my plane will still climb or descend..guessing that this is due to weight changes in fuel consumption but was curious to see how other pilots are holding altitude with the C-1.

As per description in the manual (sic!) there is NO altitude hold. The only function for the elevator axis is a pitch hold

Oskar

I know this is an old thread, but maybe someone can help - I'm interested in these C-1 Auto Pilot films, but the transfer isn't cheap. Is there someone else who is interested in these films and who might be willing to split the costs with me? Thanx.