Supermarine "Spitfire" Mk1a Screenshots

Five "Ace" aircraft in a box
Snuffy
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Post by Snuffy »

-E wrote:What was the Pacific Fighters fiasco? Was it released unplayable/broken? (I've thought about getting it from time to time)
Nope. Just that there wasn't much Pacific in it ... really. About 2 miles of water on any given side of an island.

Mr. Maddox' postage stamp maps are going to kill his projects. He needs to build the world or at least an entire theater.
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Snuffy
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Smokin256
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Post by Smokin256 »

Well I'm not really the right guy to answer because I never bought it. But From what I've seen talked about it was more incomplete than broken and unplayable.

Originally it was supposed to be an almost entirely third party delveloped add-on. But it turned out that the guy that was doing it just plain didn't have the resources to do it. I can't blame the guy. It was a grand idea. He just got in over his head. But it was getting close to deadline and so Oleg had to pull his whole crew off of BoB development to finish it. That probably set his BoB back a year.

Then it was released with no flyable torpedo bombers at all. No Kate, No Avenger. A pacific theater sim with no torpedo bombers! (And as far as I know there are still no torpedo bombers!)

Also as Snuffy mentions the layout of the maps for Pacific fighters made no sense. You couldn't do any kind of historical missions with them.

Then it still had all the same problems of all the earlier IL2 sims. No communication between the different departments. The AI still couldn't avoid mountains, yet the campaign missions still flew them right into them. The AI guys could have called the campaign guys and said "hey my AI doesn't really do too well at avoiding mountains. So you might not want to set your mission waypoints at 1,000 feet if there are 1,500 foot mountains in between, ok." But they apparently never did. through three generations of sims. Then you have the FM guys who in the case of the Polikarpov I-16 had the elevators trimmed to fly hands off at 350kph (it had no cockpit trim controls at all) which was perfect because that's what the campaign missions had you flying at most of the time. Then the flight model guys found out that normal cruising speed for the I-16 was 280kph so they changed the trim. But they never bothered to mention it to the campaign guys. So now you had to fight the thing the whole way and back.

Just countless countless things like that.

Sorry, I'm ranting aren't I. It's just so frustrating because it had such potential!

Oh, and for the record I voted for the CBI theater! :)

Cheers..............Smokin256

CWOJackson
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Post by CWOJackson »

-E wrote:What was the Pacific Fighters fiasco? Was it released unplayable/broken? (I've thought about getting it from time to time)
PF was the result of a troubled development history and an ongoing dispute between 1C and Ubisoft. It's history has been an odd mixture of the very best and worst and developer can offer their customers.

I can best explain it by describing my own experience with it right out of the box. The first thing I did was load up the "historical" Pearl Harbor mission. I couldn't fly a Kate yet but was sure that would come soon enough, so I decide to go with a dive bomber.

I was hooked right from the start. There I am, in a flight approaching the Hawaiian chain, other formations to both sides and in front. The modeling of the Hawaiian Islands and water is great...I'm glad I pre-ordered.

Soon we're approaching Pearl and I have no problem picking out key landmarks around the harbor. I quickly spot battleship row then my flight starts manuvering for the attack, other planes are diving, flak is starting to appear...it's great!

I pick out a nice fat battleship and roll into the attack, flak is picking up in intensity. I line up the target and realize that I'm attacking HMS King George the V!

??????????

A couple of years and numerous patches later and nothing's really changed. Unfortunately, the other islands are not nearly as well rendered as the Hawaiian Islands...which is only used for ONE scenario.

There are still no flyable carrier based torpedo aircraft. Ship recognition remains difficult....is that a Japanese English battleship or an American English battleship...or an English English battleship?

Operations are restricted to a few small areas and standalone campaign play is by far the worst of the entire IL2 series. The patches have had little impact on PF itself and were directed to the combined series and online play market.

I understand the troubled development history of the game and on going dispute between 1C and Ubisoft, but this was the last 1C product I buy until it's been thoroughly reviewed and patched up.

CWOJackson
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Post by CWOJackson »

Smokin256 wrote:
Oh, and for the record I voted for the CBI theater! :)

Cheers..............Smokin256
I was a lonely voice who wanted to see the Spanish Civil War.

Barkhorn1x
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Post by Barkhorn1x »

I do believe I have to agree regarding PF.

Now the plane and ship models are uniformly excellent (just look at the Akagi and Lexington 8) ), but there are too few and there significant gaps.

There was also the whole Northrop/Grumman TM issue which basically put the kybosh on a flyable Avenger and Superfortress and the inclusion of the Devastator (those screenshots showed an excellent model believe me).

So, the whole thing came off half baked. The SimHQ guys have done some excellent work on the DGEN campaigns but they are not nearly as accurate - or immersive - as BoB.

Flying in the ETO 1944/45 or on the Eastern Front is pretty good tho'

Barkhorn.
The ORIGINAL Barkhorn.

Panther_99FS
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Post by Panther_99FS »

I just want to say that I think you folks are 'spot on' in terms of paint color and wear - Great job :!:
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mJolner
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Post by mJolner »

PF is not perfect but has its strong points I for one enjoy it thoroughly. Many of the Maps are huge but keep in mind it was never intended for longe range bombing and escort missions but those types of missions can be done with decent results.

I prefer the PF+AEP+FB merged game.

The most recent patches have introduced a new flight model that is a serious improvement in terms of inertial effects and it just feels excellent. Most of the aircraft have a decent learning curve and are in no way arcade like.

Think of a mission scenario in almost any theatre and you can create it with the FMB. Burma, North Africa, Manchuria, Coral Sea, Chichi Jima, Iwo Jima, Sinapore, Leyte, Midway, Aleutians, Gulf of Finland, English Channel, the list goes on. All these possibilities with 200+ flyables not all of them perfect but pretty respectable. Notto mention all of the various combinations of ordnance, guns, and rockets.

In this regard Olegs Sim is an epic and he has done much for the combat sim world. I think he deserves praise.

And comparing any of his stuff to CFS3 is laughable.
Last edited by mJolner on 14 Apr 2006, 20:09, edited 1 time in total.

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dj51d
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Post by dj51d »

One area where the WOP planes really shine is in sound.

In IL2:FB I could never get past the sounds, that M-14P sound would be great if it was paired with a Yak-52 or CJ-6, but in FB's P-47 it's just wrong.
Dan Johnson

-E
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Post by -E »

Back to the Spitfire...

Scott, will the P8 compass work?

And if so, will it work correctly? *grin*

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Boandlgramer
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Post by Boandlgramer »

mJolner wrote:
Olegs..... he has done much for the combat sim world. I think he deserves praise.

.
i agree 100%.

not to forget the multiplayer thing.
the best available yet.

Smokin256
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Post by Smokin256 »

-E wrote;
"Back to the Spitfire...

Scott, will the P8 compass work?

And if so, will it work correctly? *grin*"
I've been wondering about this as well. It appears from what little can be deduced from the screenshots that the grid ring is fixed (meaning not moveable) and the compass pointer basically shows your current heading. It would sure be nice if it could be made to work correctly. And that those fixes could filter down to BoB WoV! :)

And on the subject of navigation, I have some general FS-9 + WOP questions. I have always dreamed of a sim that simulates all of the compass and navigation details correctly (among many other things). Things like magnetic compass errors (turning errors lead/lag, Acceleration/deceleration errors, Deviation/variation). Directional gyro precesion error. Things like that. Are those things modeled in FS-9 + WoP? I've never owned a civilian sim but I would think that if those things were ever modeled they would likey be found in a civil sim rather than a combat sim.

Also how has the boost gauge/automatic boost control cutout been modeled? It appears that it reads zero psi boost with the engine off. And -4 or so idling. So that much is ok. But how does the boost gauge react to changes in rpm and throttle position both with the boost control cutout off and on? A number of us over at BoB WoV have been working on refining things like this and I was just wondering how WoP handles it.

Cheers...............Smokin256

SD_Research
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Post by SD_Research »

The automatic boost control limits the maximum boost to 6.3 psi at all time unless the boost cutout switch is engage, in which case it will go to 12 psi. Manifold pressure will fall off after critical altitude naturally, that is, if the engine is in automatic, the manifold pressure will decline from the maximum of +6.3 after critical altitude, and if the boost cutout is on, it will decline from +12 psi. We have managed to get an extremely natural behavior from the engine and duplicate the various documented speeds from sea level to 30,000 feet with great accuracy.

Panther_99FS
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Post by Panther_99FS »

Hey -E,
Don't sweat it man - this is going to be a KICKIN' SPITFIRE..... 8)
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ROB - A2A
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Post by ROB - A2A »

-E wrote:Back to the Spitfire...

Scott, will the P8 compass work?

And if so, will it work correctly? *grin*
How should it work?

regards
ROB

Smokin256
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Post by Smokin256 »

ROB wrote;
"-E wrote:
Back to the Spitfire...

Scott, will the P8 compass work?

And if so, will it work correctly? *grin*


How should it work?"
Well, I know this question is directed to -E but I'll field it since I'm here. :)

The compass pointer end with the cross should point to north. And the grid ring should be able to be turned to the desried heading. Then when the Pointer end with the cross is on the "N" on the grid ring, your on course.

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In this case you can see that the compass is set for a course of about 2-3-0, the pilot would then make a 60 degree right turn until the pointer with the cross is on North. He would then be on a course of 2-3-0.

Cheers.............Smokin256

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