Calls to to ban FSX coming in: 3, 2, 1...

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patful
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Re: Calls to to ban FSX coming in: 3, 2, 1...

Post by patful »

Ummm...this thread is drifting off into speculation about an ongoing investigation and politics to boot... :(

Edited: I see Alan beat me by a few seconds. :wink:

speedy70
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Re: Calls to to ban FSX coming in: 3, 2, 1...

Post by speedy70 »

I think this thread is becoming uninformed and ridiculous.

The man was not a luggage rat nor was he drunk nor did he do rolls.

He was a fully qualified maintenance engineer and taxied aircraft every day as part of his job.That involved starting them and driving them to various points on the airport.

He obviously had a mental problem and carried out his take off,flying and one barrel roll keeping away from built up areas.

He eventually died in his final diving crash maybe purposely or as a result of previous strain on the aircraft.

He should be pitied not lied about or insulted.I am very suprised at the replies from some members of this forum.

We should be well advised to remember but for the grace of God go I.

Chris

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Orlaam
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Re: Calls to to ban FSX coming in: 3, 2, 1...

Post by Orlaam »

Well I am a mental health professional. But that means nothing, like so much nowadays. I will await further findings from the authorities. I have found that discussion forums are so divisive and negative. Can't wait for that tox screen.
Chris J.

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wblackret
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Re: Calls to to ban FSX coming in: 3, 2, 1...

Post by wblackret »

First of all, Alan_A, I apologize if I went out of the forum guidelines and that I painted the media with such a broad brush. It was not my intention to offend anyone here. And as I expressed at the end of my post, "It was my opinion", nothing more, that was based on my experiences. I do think I am entitled to my opinion and the freedom to express it. I am also aware that there is good and bad associated with everything.
My gun comment was only an example of how people are stirred by misrepresentation of facts behind any issue. Your comments in your post are expressions of your opinion based on your experiences, and I respect that. As far as any private conversation regarding my or your opinions, I think we would just end up agreeing to disagree.

Thank you for calling my attention to my opinions that I posted, I'll reread the forum guidelines to insure I don't cross anymore boundaries.

Have a great day.
Bill Black

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Solareagle
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Re: Calls to to ban FSX coming in: 3, 2, 1...

Post by Solareagle »

Have to admit if your gonna go out there's probably not a more fun way to do it. Seriously, who in their life gets to blaze around in a twin engine jet prop for a couple hours doing and seeing whatever they want, and then get a quick death to boot? Most people suffer a miserable existence toward the end, and have no fun at all doing it.

This guy gets my ace in the hole award for this decade. Kudos and "props". lol

Yes its sad, but when you're done you're done, might as well go out the way want. He did admit he didn't get his moment of peace up there like he expected, but he got to do his barrel roll, which went well, then go nose down and call it a night.
A man's dreams are an index to his greatness.

Skywagon
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Re: Calls to to ban FSX coming in: 3, 2, 1...

Post by Skywagon »

I’m sure I wasn’t the only person here that made the connection between the Orcas statement and Orcas island by orbx. I figured the whales he mentioned were the ones modelled off the end of the runway. I found the whole thing to be very sad. That being said if there’s a way to go out..man.
Some of the maneuvers were nothing short of impressive. I’m sure the guys over at majestic are holding their breath.

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JJB17463rdBombGroup
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Re: Calls to to ban FSX coming in: 3, 2, 1...

Post by JJB17463rdBombGroup »

Look at this article.
Essentially it states there were no lapses in security.

https://komonews.com/news/local/securit ... rport-says

I would call that a fail or as comrade Stalin would say (and do !) what is the price for failure?
Let the NKVD handle that one!
Son of a U.S.A.A.F. 15th Air Force 463rd bomb group 772nd squadron B17 pilot.
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Orlaam
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Re: Calls to to ban FSX coming in: 3, 2, 1...

Post by Orlaam »

JJB17463rdBombGroup wrote:Look at this article.
Essentially it states there were no lapses in security.

https://komonews.com/news/local/securit ... rport-says

I would call that a fail or as comrade Stalin would say (and do !) what is the price for failure?
Let the NKVD handle that one!
Well considering he was an employee, then how could there be a lapse? Maybe if he were wandering around inside a Southwest 737, but he was in an area he worked. Yes, lots of businesses have locations that are secure. When I worked in surgery, only surgical employees were allowed there, but overall I could roam free around the hospital. I worked there. Just as the hospital I work now. I am forbidden to be in the maintenance rooms or pharmacy, that's about it.

So if go into the medication room, pull a vial of insulin, draw the whole bottle up into a 3 mL syringe, then inject myself, how would that be a lapse in security protocol? I have access to the med room, have Pyxis access, and give medications as part of my job. Despite all the protocols we're expected to follow to prevent patient injury, they can be bypassed. Years ago, when I worked in surgery, we had an orderly dig into the sharps containers after each surgery. He would pull out vials of morphine and other drugs. He didn't really understand all that anesthesia used. He ended up pulling out a vial of sufentanil and ODing in the bathroom. Now I don't think he intended to die, but the drug is about 500 times more potent than morphine.

Protocols for anesthesia were changed and drugs were wasted into the container, so no fluid remained in the syringes or vials. This practice soon waned over time. It wasn't an problem - employees stealing drugs from surgery cases. Interestingly, years later I ran into a former CVOR tech who told me of an anesthesiologist that worked when we did. He said the doctor became addicted to narcotics and was using injectable opioids until he was caught and lost his privileges for a 2 years. This is yet another example of an employee with access. It's all about access, and it won't change regardless of how many safety measures you put in place. The old adage "If there's a will, there's a way" seems to fall on deaf ears.
Chris J.

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JJB17463rdBombGroup
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Re: Calls to to ban FSX coming in: 3, 2, 1...

Post by JJB17463rdBombGroup »

Orlaam wrote:
JJB17463rdBombGroup wrote:Look at this article.
Essentially it states there were no lapses in security.

https://komonews.com/news/local/securit ... rport-says

I would call that a fail or as comrade Stalin would say (and do !) what is the price for failure?
Let the NKVD handle that one!
Well considering he was an employee, then how could there be a lapse? Maybe if he were wandering around inside a Southwest 737, but he was in an area he worked. Yes, lots of businesses have locations that are secure. When I worked in surgery, only surgical employees were allowed there, but overall I could roam free around the hospital. I worked there. Just as the hospital I work now. I am forbidden to be in the maintenance rooms or pharmacy, that's about it.

So if go into the medication room, pull a vial of insulin, draw the whole bottle up into a 3 mL syringe, then inject myself, how would that be a lapse in security protocol? I have access to the med room, have Pyxis access, and give medications as part of my job. Despite all the protocols we're expected to follow to prevent patient injury, they can be bypassed. Years ago, when I worked in surgery, we had an orderly dig into the sharps containers after each surgery. He would pull out vials of morphine and other drugs. He didn't really understand all that anesthesia used. He ended up pulling out a vial of sufentanil and ODing in the bathroom. Now I don't think he intended to die, but the drug is about 500 times more potent than morphine.

Protocols for anesthesia were changed and drugs were wasted into the container, so no fluid remained in the syringes or vials. This practice soon waned over time. It wasn't an problem - employees stealing drugs from surgery cases. Interestingly, years later I ran into a former CVOR tech who told me of an anesthesiologist that worked when we did. He said the doctor became addicted to narcotics and was using injectable opioids until he was caught and lost his privileges for a 2 years. This is yet another example of an employee with access. It's all about access, and it won't change regardless of how many safety measures you put in place. The old adage "If there's a will, there's a way" seems to fall on deaf ears.

Maybe they could have two people do that job so if one of them does something odd then the other employee could notify his higher ups like they have two missileers instead of just one person doing that job.
Also they could have better (video) surveillance on what is going on.
In fact I see another article on this very issue
https://komonews.com/news/local/sen-can ... -protocols
Son of a U.S.A.A.F. 15th Air Force 463rd bomb group 772nd squadron B17 pilot.
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Orlaam
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Re: Calls to to ban FSX coming in: 3, 2, 1...

Post by Orlaam »

JJB17463rdBombGroup wrote:

Maybe they could have two people do that job so if one of them does something odd then the other employee could notify his higher ups like they have two missileers instead of just one person doing that job.
Also they could have better (video) surveillance on what is going on.
In fact I see another article on this very issue
https://komonews.com/news/local/sen-can ... -protocols
Yes, but we all know that costs money. And companies are way more concerned about saving cash than having an extra employee around.
Chris J.

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Alan_A
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Re: Calls to to ban FSX coming in: 3, 2, 1...

Post by Alan_A »

wblackret wrote:First of all, Alan_A, I apologize if I went out of the forum guidelines and that I painted the media with such a broad brush. It was not my intention to offend anyone here. And as I expressed at the end of my post, "It was my opinion", nothing more...
No worries at all - I get what you're saying, and yes, you're absolutely entitled to your opinions. And you have the right to express yourself. It's just that this is a private forum that has its own rules and restrictions - which means that self-expression can get crosswise with the guidelines. And there are some hot-button topics (like guns) that have a way of going south no matter how sensible the original post was. Was really just trying to flag those. You can think of my post as more of a friendly warning than anything else - hope you will.

And I'm not offended about the media (actually I had a serious argument with a reporter for a major newspaper just last month about some coverage that I thought was slanted and inaccurate). Just pointing out that, as with anything else, there are some bad actors out there and also some good people trying to make a contribution and get through their day. I'm just looking to complicate things a bit.

You're probably right that we'd agree to disagree - which, these days, isn't the worst that can happen...

Thanks again, and good flying!
"Ah, Paula, they are firing at me!" -- Saint-Exupery

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Alan_A
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Re: Calls to to ban FSX coming in: 3, 2, 1...

Post by Alan_A »

speedy70 wrote:
He should be pitied not lied about or insulted...

We should be well advised to remember but for the grace of God go I.
Couldn't agree more.
"Ah, Paula, they are firing at me!" -- Saint-Exupery

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AKar
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Re: Calls to to ban FSX coming in: 3, 2, 1...

Post by AKar »

Orlaam wrote:The old adage "If there's a will, there's a way" seems to fall on deaf ears.
This is entirely true, I believe, in what comes to so-called internal threats in particular.

Long time ago, back when I was a ramp agent (luggage crusher), at some point I did mostly turboprop flights. I knew the cockpit, and also had some technical background to figure out how to battery start the thing if not just searching Google. Even if some insist, perhaps to keep up their paygrades, simply operating these things are not that difficult business really in comparison to fields where actual technical knowledge is required. I had flown airplanes some even by then, that wouldn't be a problem either. I would have known the optimal stands to steal one, for I was the one who actually took the planes on and off the chocks. I knew the schedules, and could watch for the refueling, if for a longer 'trip'. I knew the W&Bs and so on.

And there are probably thousands of guys just like I was in that sense, residing all over the globe, and it only takes one of them to go nuts to make the headlines.

It is all but impossible to look after all of them by hard means...perhaps they very likely can't bring a gun or something through the airport security when they come to work, but they probably have an access inside the area to an amount of fuel needed to incinerate an aircraft if they wanted to, no matter they couldn't even bring their sports drinks inside. This won't work that way. There shouldn't be any 'will' to do anything like this in the first place.

The trick in any security sensitive environment is that each employee working there must be a part of the family in that sense that (s)he's cared of enough to have an idea how the individual is doing. There are various work safety and well-being programmes around, but each one of them I've run into are absolute bullshit. The work (or school or equivalent) we do in a western world often links heavily into life we live or wish to live. How we do at home (if any) links to how we do at work (if any), and to how we do with our loved ones (if any). While big companies are there to recommend you a great coffee maker at the side of your browser page based on your searches about fresh-ground coffee, but very few work communities in which we browse around daily actually are there to note that hey you, you need something into your life, other than less sickleaves.

-Esa

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Jacques
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Re: Calls to to ban FSX coming in: 3, 2, 1...

Post by Jacques »

The last paragraph is the problem in a nutshell, Esa. Very well said.
Compassion and caring for employees’ well-being by companies other than those individually or family-operated is a very, very, very rare commodity.


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JJB17463rdBombGroup
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Re: Calls to to ban FSX coming in: 3, 2, 1...

Post by JJB17463rdBombGroup »

Orlaam wrote:
JJB17463rdBombGroup wrote:

Maybe they could have two people do that job so if one of them does something odd then the other employee could notify his higher ups like they have two missileers instead of just one person doing that job.
Also they could have better (video) surveillance on what is going on.
In fact I see another article on this very issue
https://komonews.com/news/local/sen-can ... -protocols
Yes, but we all know that costs money. And companies are way more concerned about saving cash than having an extra employee around.
Well another option would be perhaps to put a coded throttle limiting lock on aircraft so they could have enough power to move around an airfield on the ground but not have enough power to takeoff and also in conjunction with or perhaps without coded flight control locks.All of these could be accessed by authorized pilots.This would exclude the ground personnel with perhaps a few other authorized higher ups.This is just a suggestion by me and just hypothetical.
Of course I'm just suggesting this mostly for commercial aircraft though it could work for others as well if needed.

Also perhaps have aircraft anti tampering cameras in the cockpit for evidence purposes for prosecution and add some new heavy criminal law and civil penalties for tampering.
Maybe better better employee monitoring like with GPS tracking.Hire more security to watch over and monitor employees.

Edit here is a new article on new security reforms
https://komonews.com/news/local/stolen- ... ty-reviews
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