Contingency Plan

[justindw199]

Alright, first off I have to apologize for kind of a not-so-happy post today, but this is something that has been on my mind for a while now, and I think it would be a good thing to discuss.

To the A2A Development Team:

In light of recent occurrences with Dovetail Games (more like Dumbfail) and the failure of their attempt to take over the Flight Sim entertainment business through the use of the FSX platform under license from Microsoft, and the possibility of a lawsuit of Lockheed Martin's Prepar3d for license infringement, what is A2A's plan of action should Dovetail pull FSX:SE from the Steam store, and also manage to end Prepar3d through a lawsuit?

My main fear is that with Steam Edition not doing so well anymore on Steam, and now with the failure of FSW after a fairly high expenditure acquisition and development, Dovetail may be looking to cut costs (pull FSX:SE and FSW from the store [FSW is already coming out soon]), and may be looking to ways to recoup their loss. Unfortunately for us, that may be through a lawsuit of Lockheed Martin for failing to ensure it's does not infringe on the entertainment license of FSX that DTG owns. This is mainly our fault as a community, most of us use the academic edition for entertainment, which is clearly not allowed per the P3D EULA. That is grounds for Dovetail to sue Lockheed for failing to ensure it isn't used for entertainment. Really the only party that wouldn't be affected if this "war" turned hot would be X-Plane, as much as I have my problems with it.

Most of this information has been gathered and distributed by Froogle, which I have a lot of trust in his word. But the main thing that makes me believe this is a possiblity is that I have been a customer of Dovetail since long before they were even known as Dovetail Games. They used to be known as Railsimulator.com, working specifically on their project, RailSimulator (Later Railworks, and now Train Simulator 20xx and Train Sim World). They used to be a great company back then, but since they rebranded and became Dovetail to encompass more than just trains, they have turned into garbage interested in nothing except profit. For example, the BR Class 101 DMU DLC from RSC cost $20. It included 7 different paint schemes. Since DTG has been introduced, that DLC was removed from sale, and broken down into 7 different DLCs, each featuring one paint scheme, each one costing $20. So a product that once cost $20, now costs $140. See my point? They ignore most of their customer support requests, and generally just stopped caring about their user base. When I saw they had the license to FSX some years back, all I could think of was "Oh no". I saw this whole failure coming years ago, and now I see no reason why DTG would not pursue a lawsuit of P3D and pull FSX:SE from sale.

So I guess with all my background information and explanation out of the way, my question to A2A is how A2A will move forward should the apocalypse come for FSX. I know you guys love what you're doing and wouldn't want to give up, but I'm just curious if their is a fallback plan should it happen? Or even a plan maybe to diversify so A2A wouldn't be forced to close it's doors if FSX/P3D sales ran dry?

Thanks guys.

[crippy]

Honestly, I wouldn't worry too much about it. From what I've heard Dove Tail would basically go belly up in legal fees if they tried to file suit against Lockheed Martin.

As far as froogles comments on the sift he predicts to X-plane, I understand it and I am seeing the surge myself however, until we see major players switching to X-plane {PMDG for example} I think there will still be markets for both P3D and X-Plane. I think the majority of what he said, especially at the end was mostly fueled by emotion, and steam because of his hatred for the Dove Tail way of developing games...The basically in a way let their dev team out to dry...froogle didn't like that.

As far as A2A - From what I hear they are one of the most popular addon makers in the market, so I don't see them rolling over and dying because of changing markets. I figure Scott a smart and business savvy person, so I would imagine he will manage and make changes to his company as necessary in the face of changing markets, and A2A's long term goals and dreams.

So in conclusion, I wouldn't worry about it too much. If Dove Tail do kill off the original FSX, well you still have P3D (Basically upgraded FSX under the hood) to fall back on. And A2A isn't going anywhere if anything they will continue to grow and become more successful.

[Dogsbody55]

I'd suggest that for DTG to attempt to sue LM would be commercial suicide. Their case would have to be iron clad, and in litigation cases that is rare. I also suspect that a small English software company trying to sue a huge American company in an American court would be akin to a snowball surviving in Hades. Trying to prove in a court of law that "most" of LM's customers are using the Academic version of P3D in contravention of the EULA would be a nightmare. Does anyone seriously think DTG have actually crunched the numbers?? Have LM done all they can to reasonably ensure that all Academic users are students?? Define a student. You start to see the nightmare that DTG would be letting themselves in for if they took that road, and I'm sure that LM's lawyers would twist DTG like a pretzel in legal argument.

Next point is that it is likely DTG are cash poor at the moment. I have heard from another source that the main reason DTG pulled the pin on FSW is that they didn't have the cash to cover it's ongoing development costs plus an upcoming license fee to MS due next month. This perhaps means that DTG's right to develop a flightsim from FSX will lapse at the same time and it's possible that MS will offer the license again to someone else. Froogle and his team may get another shot at their ideas for a next gen flightsim. DTG would be far better off to try to sell their development work in order to recoup some cash.

We flightsim flyers have become used to a certain type of flightsim program. It is one which offers all users the chance to fly in all parts of the world, in all weathers, in all types of aircraft. We've also got used to a certain standard in the look and feel of the sim, how well the planes fly, and how detailed the scenery is, etc. The MS flightsim franchise has been the dominant franchise, despite it's faults, because it offers almost the same number of possibilities to a desktop flyer as it does to a real world flyer. But we need top remember it's been developed over decades. It is doubtful that MS ever made much, if any, money from it's sales. We got MS Flightsim because Bill Gates saw an early flightsim and realised the possibilities and how it could showcase his company's abilities. Flight simulation is the hardest of all gaming simulation to achieve well because of it's computing hardware requirements and also because it is the most complex of all gaming genres to successfully simulate. It is gaming software that has driven so many of the advances in computers since the late 80's. He kept it going, and as soon as he left, MS shut it down. "The suits" didn't understand the passion that drives flightsim, but Gates did. The money lies in the addons but the addons drive the improvements in the sim and it's sales. It's a very symbiotic relationship between the two.

So for DTG to offer for sale a half complete sim was just a repeat of the same mistake that MS made with the release of Flight. However good it may have been, it didn't offer enough of what we are used to. LM have been carefully developing P3D since 2005. This first version was only a little better than FSX. Xplane has been around since the late nineties, but is only now achieving any sort of market penetration. DTG had a hard act to follow, and so will any other developer who chooses to try to build a successor to the MS Flightsim franchise, because if it doesn't stick to the same structures as MSFS and can't match P3D and Xplane, they're wasting their time and money.

Where DTG also went wrong is that they thought they could control the addon market, at least to some degree, and they tried to do it all in too short a time span. This is what you risk when you go into business, and no business venture comes with guarantees. Every court in the world understands this, so I seriously doubt that any legal action will be forthcoming from DTG, for all the reasons I've stated above.


Another $0.02 from me.
Mike

[CAPFlyer]

I'm sorry, I didn't read your whole post, but it seems from the first third that you bought Froogle's BS hook, line, and sinker. His video was an opinion. It had very little actual fact in it and because of it, I lost a lot of respect for him. Had you read the comments, there was a pretty long post from me, which Froogle responded to, which countered several of his "points" with facts. I would highly suggest you read the whole facts. It's been almost 2 weeks since his video was posted and a lot more information has come out since on it that puts his video in the poorly researched light it should be.

I will simply suggest you read my comments to the video (including following to the AVSIM thread), and a link here to the discussion of the demise of FSW on this forum here -

http://a2asimulations.com/forum/viewtop ... 04&t=63616

[Leadcatcher]

I have to agree that Froogle’s video was more fantasy than anything based on reality. The only hint anywhere on any social media about possible legal action by Dovetail is from his segment. I am afraid he has lost me a as fan as well.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[jabloomf1230]

I've been searching for the phrase to best describe Frooglesim's video and you two have hit upon perfectly:

Final Fantasy FSW

[Dogsbody55]

I'm sorry, I didn't read your whole post, but it seems from the first third that you bought Froogle's BS hook, line, and sinker. His video was an opinion. It had very little actual fact in it and because of it, I lost a lot of respect for him. Had you read the comments, there was a pretty long post from me, which Froogle responded to, which countered several of his "points" with facts. I would highly suggest you read the whole facts. It's been almost 2 weeks since his video was posted and a lot more information has come out since on it that puts his video in the poorly researched light it should be.

I will simply suggest you read my comments to the video (including following to the AVSIM thread), and a link here to the discussion of the demise of FSW on this forum here -

http://a2asimulations.com/forum/viewtop ... 04&t=63616

I've read those comments, and if you'd read mine, you'd have found that I also didn't buy into Froogle's rather "emotional" statement. In fact, I'm surprised and disappointed by your comment, considering that I've read your many contributions on this and another forum and always found them to be well considered. This was not.

I suggest you also read another comment of mine:

http://a2asimulations.com/forum/viewtop ... 1&start=15


Regards,
Mike

[Oracle427]

I believe CAPFlyer was replying to the OP.

[AKar]

Hmm. Technically speaking, any need for such a contingency plan would be due to perceived risk of not retaining or growing the customer base while keeping on developing solely for the FSX/P3D platform.

In that sense, the risk comes directly from us, the customers, if we lack confidence on the sustainability of platforms.

Should they hold an annual closed opinion vote perhaps?

I mean, on how likely me, "Sir/Madame/Other" am to continue purchasing their products, which in whatever way related to the subject of the simulation product be of interest to me, if released on these platforms exclusively? And then the tick marks, you know, for the products and the platforms respectively.




I think I at least just look forward on their products and plans, and react either with my wallet or "I told this was going to happen - I'm betrayed!!!!!" kind of statements as good customers are supposed to do.

-Esa

[CAPFlyer]

I've read those comments, and if you'd read mine, you'd have found that I also didn't buy into Froogle's rather "emotional" statement.

Mike, apologies, I was replying to the OP. If that wasn't clear, then that is my bad. I typically try to quote or otherwise make clear who I'm replying to, but I guess I forgot that this time.

[Dogsbody55]

I've read those comments, and if you'd read mine, you'd have found that I also didn't buy into Froogle's rather "emotional" statement.

Mike, apologies, I was replying to the OP. If that wasn't clear, then that is my bad. I typically try to quote or otherwise make clear who I'm replying to, but I guess I forgot that this time.

No worries. Perhaps that's the problem with forums where many take part. We all get hold of the wrong end of the stick sometimes, me included.


Cheers,
Mike