We should be careful not to lose too much freedom

[Scott - A2A]

A few things come to mind.

A year or so ago I was in a hot tub at a local health club, and saw this laundry list of rules, of if you have A, B, C, D, etc. don't do this, get out if bla, don't etc. etc. And I realized that, society is now treating corporations like our parents and the general public as their kids. If someone goes into a hot tub with a heart condition, has a heart attack, they will blame the corporation and probably get a nice settlement with all their health bills paid. Why does this happen? Because we as a society are slowly giving up our freedom and being treated more like children.

I have a 2004 Toyota Land Cruiser (great vehicle), but it has this annoying feature of automatically locking the doors. As if I can't manage when to lock or unlock the doors. I can't tell you how many times I go out to my garage to pull on a door only to find it locked and think "when was I considered someone who can't manage this?"

The last thing are these air bags. Personally I don't want these explosive devices in front of me unless I am on the highway. This is my choice, but the car manufacturers can't give us the option, because, if I turn it off, get killed, I could successfully argue this was ultimately their fault and get a huge settlement. Why? Because my lawyer would argue about how the large corporation knows better than I do and they are therefore to blame. In other worlds, they have control over my life, like a parent has over a child.

One last thing to consider. In the 50's (Lewis knows more about this than I do) there was a large annual airshow in England where a jet crashed into the crowd, killing dozens. They actually went on with the show later that afternoon and nobody sued the airplane manufacture, show officials, etc. Now I am not crazy about a show going on after such a tragedy, but it goes to show how radically this world has changed in just 1/2 of a lifetime. This show was very important to the British economy as the #1 industry then was aviation, and they just forged head and got business done.

I am just saying this to let us all think who we want to be, and who (or what) do we want having control over our lives. A world where adults are treated with respect and authority over their own lives and actions, is a much better world where some bigger entity thinks about what each of us can or can't do on our own, when it has no impact on anyone around us.

Scott.

[Ron Attwood]

Scott, welcome to the world of old farts. I warn you now, it gets worse!

[JJB17463rdBombGroup]

In 20 years you might not have the choice to be the driver.The car might be the driver and not tolerate human intervention.On the bright side of things in 55 years like in the year 2071 petroleum fuels might be so exorbitantly expensive that a bicycle (or preferably a velomobile) might be your best alternative as most of the motor vehicles will be used for (unlawful) human habitation rather than used for transportation.

[AviationAtWar]

I have a 2004 Toyota Land Cruiser (great vehicle), but it has this annoying feature of automatically locking the doors. As if I can't manage when to lock or unlock the doors. I can't tell you how many times I go out to my garage to pull on a door only to find it locked and think "when was I considered someone who can't manage this?"

You can change it yourself to unlock when the shifter is put back into park.

[Scott - A2A]

Well thanks for that

Scott.

[Roadburner426]

Was kind of shocked to see this thread was started by Scott. I must say though that I have to agree on all points though, but unfortunately majority rules. I have noticed this myself with the recent crop of kids coming in to the military in recent years. People just do not want to be responsible for their actions and look for an easy pay day.

To touch on BombGroups point about petroleum fuels becoming expensive as can be later on and all of us having to ride bicycles there are other alternatives. I have been driving a full electric car for 5 years now (not a Tesla). 48,000 miles later and only having to do tire rotations & add windshield washer fluid for maintenance to me the car is the future. By 2071 I hope battery technology advances enough to where the cars have more than 50-70 miles of range in the lower end cars. So there are other pathways. Personally though I do not see oil being gone for a long time, and I hope it doesn't go away. I personally was happy to see US oil production tick up over the last few years in the mid west, and put the hurting on OPEC to the point they had to choose between losing money or market share. We shall see where it goes though. It is amazing to think where people in the 1950's/60's thought the future would be, and that by now we would have colonies in outer space across the galaxy. Little did they know we'd still be squabbling on this rock not leave low Earth orbit, and having to make laws to protect people from themselves.

[DC3]

Oh Scott if you only knew how much I agree with you. And, as was said previously, welcome to the world of us old farts. We who remember how it used to be when people were responsible for themselves and humans were not required to wear bicycle helmets when going out for a ride (for example). I am not saying there is anything wrong with wearing the helmet, it is the compelling need society has developed to tell you it has to be worn where the issue gets sticky for me

[Scott - A2A]

Well, I always wanted the pilot's lounge to be any conversation you may have in a bar, lounge, etc. And freedom is probably the most important subject among pilots, me being one of them. Freedom doesn't need to turn into politics. Freedom is a word that means so many things to different people and it's a very important topic to discuss, often.

I would like to think when most people really think about what freedom truly is and means, we are the majority. Most kids I talk to who don't understand, when I explain it a bit, I can see them thinking and agreeing (and I can tell they are not used to adults talking to them like this). They just haven't yet gotten the experience yet to understand, but as long as we maintain freedom of speech, they will.

DC-3, that helmet analogy is a good one, and one that you will find good people argue both points.

Scott.

[Molly - A2A]

Ugh, can we please not turn this into a "kids these days" complaint fest? Guess what, the current generation was not formed in a vacuum. Every single person is a result of their parents and the state of the society they grew up in.

[Paughco]

Sounds like a rant I used to see from time to time on the very first listserv I ever subscribed to, "The Harley Digest." I'd come back with this:

We just want to be free! Free, to ride our machines and not be hassled by the man! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MnGzl-OEyGE.

Seeya
ATB

[karaya1]

Hi Scott

Couldn't agree more although things are still a little different here. That's in New Zealand. Having said that though, we just had new "Health and Safely" laws introduced. Meant to make people safe at work and play, and they were needed as some of our industries tended to be a bit cavalier about worker safety, but they also mean that everyone is now paranoid about being prosecuted (you don't get sued and can't sue others here like in the USA) for breaching these laws so a lot of individual responsibility is being taken away and things are being mandated.

It does bring to mind two instances I was party to on a BMW motorcycle forum about 15yrs ago. First one was someone in the US was suing BMWNA because their R1100RSL (full fairing) had caught fire because they left it on fast idle when they went to answer the phone and the exhaust melted the plastic fairing setting fire to the bike. Obviously BMW's fault because they didn't put a means in place to stop plonkers from owning and operating their motorcycles.

The other I was directly involved in and showed the difference between the US and here. Members had been complaining how long it took to fill their R1100's as the filler cap had a long narrow stand pipe that meant the last 2-3 liters (gal or so) took forever to get into the tank. I suggested they modify their input stand pipe as I had by getting their local bike shop to drill a series of 10mm holes around the top of the pipe. Worked a treat as it meant you could fill the tank to the top quickly with no worries about the hose automatically shutting off until the tank was fill. I was politely informed by some people I respected there that no bike shop in the US would do that because if someone overfilled their bike and set fire to themselves of the gas station they would sue the bike shop for doing the work. Go figure. I had assumed that as I commissioned the work it was my responsibility. You know like grown ups do, take responsibility for your actions without looking for someone else to apportion blame to.

You see, that's the thing about freedom, it means taking responsibility for your actions, personally, good and bad. And without that big step, you are never free, and never will be.

Regards
Paul

[alehead]

I agree totally with you on your concluding statement Paul. I also feel freedom is directly linked to me taking responsibility for my actions. Laws that free me of my responsibility effectively remove my freedom to act.

A


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[AKar]

I seriously hate this attempt by today's society to regulate the problems out of existence. As several excellent authors have noted, it has been tried before and never worked beyond certain point much behind us already. There is nothing I would yearn for in the culture of rules and blame.

-Esa

[n421nj]

+1 to being treated like an adult but since the first person learned easy money could be had by placing the blame on everyone but themselves, here we are.

[G-BJPS]

Awesome post Scott, 150% agree!

When I was a kid my Grandparents lived in a house they had built in the country surrounded by corn and wheat fields. I spent every weekend and school holidays there, shooting and fishing with my grandad, he taught me everything from tying flies for trout fishing to driving a tractor.
And one thing he allways banged on about was using my common sense and thinking for myself.
He was brought up from a very poor family and would have to go out and make sure he shot a rabbit so they could eat, cartridges were expensive and he became a very very good shot!
He passed this value of things and skill onto me, and would scold me for missing stuff lol!

He had served in the Merchant Navy During WW2 in the Atlantic convoys and was a twin Oerlikon gunner. After the war he joined the fire service and served over 30 years retiring in 1984.
I saw him as my hero and he did whatever he wanted, he was retired don't forget, but at that age all I saw him doing was hunting and fishing and work around the house, and I remember thinking 'that's what I want to do'.

I know I've digressed off topic slightly, but the point is he had a huge impression on me and I've held onto those values my whole life.
I hated school and did the bear minimum that was required of me, it was like I knew that it wouldn't be much use to me when I left, compared to the things my grandad taught me, and I wanted to go in the Army anyway.

I enjoyed the Army but missed my freedom.
Also from a young age I knew I didn't want kids, I saw my mom struggle to bring up me and my sisters. And later in life my mates in civvy st with kids working every hour godsend just to keep there heads above water.
The Army and my experiences there taught me more about life than any school could, and embedded the values my grandad taught me even more so.

The day I left the Army I remember thinking 'that's it, im now free and can do whatever I want to do!' And I still do to this day, I'd say I've never really 'conformed' to society, especially more so these last 16 years where the whole world has turned into a namby pamby nanny state, almost to the point today of being a dictatorship.

I laugh at the idiots in charge of the world, watching them arguing and bitching like the muppet show, making up there own rules, corruption, and screwing people over that live in 'the real world'
So I do whatever I want to do, i take no notice and have zero respect for leaders, I have no kids I enjoy full freedom, I don't wear a helmet when riding my mountain bike because it's my choice, I can think for myself and stay switched on.
I will use my phone whilst driving too if need be....like I say if you use your common sense and stay switched on you will never be caught

Live every day like it's your last, look after number one, and do what you want, this ain't no rehearsal.

John.