The A2A Simulations Community

"Come share your passion for flight"
It is currently Fri Jul 20, 2018 11:06 am

All times are UTC - 5 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 51 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: PREPAR3D?
PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 8:46 am 
Offline
A2A General
User avatar

Joined: Wed Feb 11, 2004 12:55 pm
Posts: 15013
Location: USA
As long as the stock FSX continues to be a strong platform (which it is very strong now) , we will continue to develop primarily for the stock FSX.

As of today, we see no reason to recommend that customers use P3D, but there may come a time down the road when P3D offers something substantial to us (and therefore our customers) and we would then actively recommend it.

However we do support the future of P3D because from a business point of view, having a large company like Lockheed invested in this technology, gives us a safety net in the event the future has some surprises for FSX. Right now, we're just frankly blown away how robust the stock FSX is, and how it almost timelessly stands the test of time. So, our first choice / wish is for the stock FSX to continue being strong and flexible. We have several years of new projects in development for the stock FSX, and have more advanced features coming. Also, just for the record, A2A products do appear to work well in P3D when customers import them so we appear to have both bases covered.

So, officially, A2A strongly advocates the stock FSX (cheap, proven, solid, and popular) but sees P3D as being a positive force on the genre.

Scott.

_________________
A2A Simulations Inc.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: PREPAR3D?
PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 9:56 am 
Offline
Staff Sergeant

Joined: Sat Nov 24, 2012 4:25 am
Posts: 285
Location: Morges, on lake of Geneva, Switzerland
Again as a novice in the hobby of flightsimming I do not have the knowledge nor do I pretend to have an expert opinion about P3D or FSX!
But as an hobbyist I am looking forward to enyoy flightsimming for many years and especially looking forward for a software which will take us into the future, a future which is changing fast in hardware and software progress! And for the time being and near future there is only Lockheed to further the development of a software for our hobby while taking into account FSX! And Lockheed will keep going on only if the development of such a software is financially worthwile, and in this sense we have to subscribe now for P3D (49.95 US dollars)! They are the only ones to offer us now a future for our hobby! Microsoft does not care anymore about FSX, FSX is still excellent but will not evolve!
English is not my native language, but I hope my viewpoint is understandable!

_________________
Image
Image
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: PREPAR3D?
PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 10:12 am 
Online
A2A Chief Pilot
User avatar

Joined: Fri Mar 27, 2009 8:31 am
Posts: 4494
Location: East Coast United States
francesco.doenz wrote:
Again as a novice in the hobby of flightsimming I do not have the knowledge nor do I pretend to have an expert opinion about P3D or FSX!
But as an hobbyist I am looking forward to enyoy flightsimming for many years and especially looking forward for a software which will take us into the future, a future which is changing fast in hardware and software progress! And for the time being and near future there is only Lockheed to further the development of a software for our hobby while taking into account FSX! And Lockheed will keep going on only if the development of such a software is financially worthwile, and in this sense we have to subscribe now for P3D (49.95 US dollars)! They are the only ones to offer us now a future for our hobby! Microsoft does not care anymore about FSX, FSX is still excellent but will not evolve!
English is not my native language, but I hope my viewpoint is understandable!


I would respectfully disagree with your outlook for FSX.

The fact that Microsoft isn't in the equation will have little if nothing to do with affecting the future for FSX. The program is extremely stable and workable from the developer's standpoint. Hardware has caught up with FSX and present day computers run the program quite well.
The "future" for FSX doesn't depend on the FSX program itself. FSX as time passes will simply become a basic world that developers use as a starting point for add on product in all areas of flight simulation such as scenery, aircraft, and utilities........all coded within their own unique structure and blended in flawlessly to function within the FSX framework.
The "future for FSX is actually very positive. FSX will remain a stable platform for the community for many years to come.

This in no way is a negative for development using other platforms. They will evolve on their own right.

I wouldn't worry about FSX. It will be doing just fine.

Dudley Henriques


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: PREPAR3D?
PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 4:54 pm 
Offline
Staff Sergeant

Joined: Sat Nov 24, 2012 4:25 am
Posts: 285
Location: Morges, on lake of Geneva, Switzerland
Thanks Dudley for your expert opinion which sheds a positive light on FSX and you are certainly right! I am just disappointed that the people who developed FSX are not anymore standing behind their product, of course I guess these are not the developers themselves but the marketing people of microsoft who stopped the official support and may be future development of FSX.
Being myself involved in startups (not at all in this field) I have understanding and feelings for people trying to develop and expand a new products and I admit that this is mainly the reason I want to support an undertaking like P3D!
Thank you for your positive opinion for all what people already invested in FSX and related addons!

_________________
Image
Image
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: PREPAR3D?
PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 5:10 pm 
Online
A2A Chief Pilot
User avatar

Joined: Fri Mar 27, 2009 8:31 am
Posts: 4494
Location: East Coast United States
francesco.doenz wrote:
Thanks Dudley for your expert opinion which sheds a positive light on FSX and you are certainly right! I am just disappointed that the people who developed FSX are not anymore standing behind their product, of course I guess these are not the developers themselves but the marketing people of microsoft who stopped the official support and may be future development of FSX.
Being myself involved in startups (not at all in this field) I have understanding and feelings for people trying to develop and expand a new products and I admit that this is mainly the reason I want to support an undertaking like P3D!
Thank you for your positive opinion for all what people already invested in FSX and related addons!


You are correct about what happened to FSX at Microsoft. It wasn't the FSX development team (the Aces team) who gave up on FSX but the bean counters upstairs. I know many of the FSX development team personally and I can tell you they were and still are a great bunch of extremely talented and creative people.
When I talk to these folks we seldom discuss the old days when they were involved with FSX development. We usually end up just talking about what they are doing now.
They know as I know also, that what they left us to work with in FSX was so deep the hardware they envisioned to run it has caught up. The future is bright for FSX as even better hardware comes on line. Processors, fast ram, and new GPU's from Nvidia and ATI are opening real possibilities for add on scenery, weather and environment software, and REAL add on aircraft such as A2A has developed with Accusim are making possible realism not dreamed of 5 years ago. As this happens, FSX simply will evolve and get better and better for the end user.
A2A made a good choice to stick with FSX. It's a VERY good program !
DH


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: PREPAR3D?
PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 5:37 pm 
Offline
Staff Sergeant
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2005 9:24 am
Posts: 273
Location: Montana Nomad
francesco.doenz wrote:
Thanks Dudley for your expert opinion which sheds a positive light on FSX and you are certainly right! I am just disappointed that the people who developed FSX are not anymore standing behind their product, of course I guess these are not the developers themselves but the marketing people of microsoft who stopped the official support and may be future development of FSX.
Being myself involved in startups (not at all in this field) I have understanding and feelings for people trying to develop and expand a new products and I admit that this is mainly the reason I want to support an undertaking like P3D!
Thank you for your positive opinion for all what people already invested in FSX and related addons!


Let us not forget the way of their last Dodo bird, MS Flight!!!

_________________
Image
i5-2600K SB, 8GB Mushkin Redline, ASUS P8Z68-V Pro, GTX 560 2GB, Saitek X52. Etch-A-Sketch hard wired to Speak-N-Spell backup system. Everything maxed and I see it ALL!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: PREPAR3D?
PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 5:44 pm 
Offline
A2A Master Mechanic
User avatar

Joined: Sat Aug 30, 2008 8:45 am
Posts: 1014
Location: Poland
Actually technology wise - Ms Flight was pretty neat:

Image

And I really enjoyed flying in it, even though it was a ghost town.

Unfortunately everything else was a disaster.

_________________
Chris Oleksy
Image
"I give that landing a 7 on the Richter scale."


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: PREPAR3D?
PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 5:54 pm 
Online
A2A Chief Pilot
User avatar

Joined: Fri Mar 27, 2009 8:31 am
Posts: 4494
Location: East Coast United States
Fragmentum wrote:
francesco.doenz wrote:
Thanks Dudley for your expert opinion which sheds a positive light on FSX and you are certainly right! I am just disappointed that the people who developed FSX are not anymore standing behind their product, of course I guess these are not the developers themselves but the marketing people of microsoft who stopped the official support and may be future development of FSX.
Being myself involved in startups (not at all in this field) I have understanding and feelings for people trying to develop and expand a new products and I admit that this is mainly the reason I want to support an undertaking like P3D!
Thank you for your positive opinion for all what people already invested in FSX and related addons!


Let us not forget the way of their last Dodo bird, MS Flight!!!


With the exception of one central manager and a few others, FLIGHT was a concept sent down from the bean counters once more. What a mess THAT was ! :-)))
Some Mensa dropout up on the 137th floor decided that the way to sell a flight simulator was to sell it piecemeal to the public, charging them for every bird they added to the sky or tree they added to the base package which wasn't all that good to begin with.
Again, the BRIGHT guys tried to make it work as they were told to do it.
Major FAIL!!!!!!!!
For the LIFE of me I'll never understand Microsoft's management model. They hire Rembrandt to paint a picture then have some 22 year old college kid with a degree in Ancient Greek from upstairs who doesn't know a paint brush from a palette tell him how to paint it.
D
DH


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: PREPAR3D?
PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 6:48 pm 
Offline
Senior Master Sergeant

Joined: Sat Mar 25, 2006 9:22 am
Posts: 1730
Location: Somewhere in the Middle, UK.
Likewise, I was quite impressed with some of the technical upgrades an improvements that were brought in with Flight. As has already been said, it wasn't the sim code that was the problem, it was the farcical attempt to monetise it and control every aspect of it through the finance department that was the issue. The vast majority of the criticisms aimed at it from a flying perspective were completely unfounded and even the "game" aspects that caused so much vocal opposition could simply be ignored, the same as the missions to fly through hoops and chase UFOs in FSX can.

The problem is that it was underdeveloped, appallingly supported and was doomed to fail from the moment they decided that money was more important than the software. Unbelievably, they're still trying to flog the dead donkey now by adding new little yellow flashing diamonds for people to chase around after. A handful of VCs and a bit more scenery could have kept that alive, but no... Geocaches are more important!

Insert double facepalm here.

Ian P.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: PREPAR3D?
PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 6:29 am 
Offline
Staff Sergeant

Joined: Sat Nov 24, 2012 4:25 am
Posts: 285
Location: Morges, on lake of Geneva, Switzerland
Thanks Dudley for your insider light! As always, one has to be very cautious and polite when talking without knowledge from outside, when not knowing the people involved! I should not have...but as many readers I guess it is re-comforting to know that there are still people concerned about FSX and its future and that it is still worthwhile to invest in FSX and its addons!
Your insider information could and should I think resume and close this long, controversially and interesting thread!

_________________
Image
Image
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: PREPAR3D?
PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 6:38 am 
Online
A2A Chief Pilot
User avatar

Joined: Fri Mar 27, 2009 8:31 am
Posts: 4494
Location: East Coast United States
francesco.doenz wrote:
Thanks Dudley for your insider light! As always, one has to be very cautious and polite when talking without knowledge from outside, when not knowing the people involved! I should not have...but as many readers I guess it is re-comforting to know that there are still people concerned about FSX and its future and that it is still worthwhile to invest in FSX and its addons!
Your insider information could and should I think resume and close this long, controversially and interesting thread!


Your comment was fine. Please feel free to offer comment on things in the manner you chose at any time. Your opinion is always welcome with me.
DH


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: PREPAR3D?
PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 12:44 pm 
Offline
Staff Sergeant

Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2011 2:22 pm
Posts: 313
Scott - A2A wrote:
As long as the stock FSX continues to be a strong platform (which it is very strong now) , we will continue to develop primarily for the stock FSX.

As of today, we see no reason to recommend that customers use P3D, but there may come a time down the road when P3D offers something substantial to us (and therefore our customers) and we would then actively recommend it.

However we do support the future of P3D because from a business point of view, having a large company like Lockheed invested in this technology, gives us a safety net in the event the future has some surprises for FSX. Right now, we're just frankly blown away how robust the stock FSX is, and how it almost timelessly stands the test of time. So, our first choice / wish is for the stock FSX to continue being strong and flexible. We have several years of new projects in development for the stock FSX, and have more advanced features coming. Also, just for the record, A2A products do appear to work well in P3D when customers import them so we appear to have both bases covered.

So, officially, A2A strongly advocates the stock FSX (cheap, proven, solid, and popular) but sees P3D as being a positive force on the genre.

Scott.


Thanks for clarifying A2A's position. That's a sensible stance, and it more or less reflects my own thoughts regarding the use of FSX v P3D.

/jason

_________________
Image

Image

Intel Core i7 @ 2.8GHz
nVidia GeForce GTX 1060 6GB
8GB memory
Windows 7 64-bit.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: PREPAR3D?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 11:17 am 
Offline
Airman First Class

Joined: Tue Dec 25, 2012 12:57 am
Posts: 53
As someone who's been familiar with Flight Simulator since it was first developed by the Bruce Artwick Organization (BAO) in Champaign, IL many years ago, I was astonished to see MS can the Aces Studio.

For all of its complications, difficulties, legacy issues, configuration issues, etc., FSX is the software equivalent of The Great Pyramids of Egypt. It is a monumentally complex, sophisticated and successful effort, despite whatever limitations anyone can argue it has (and of course, there are many).

Its extensibility is what matters now; and it's too bad the core codebase is probably going to go into that typical bitbucket that corporate IP ownership throws everything, i.e., not released to the public as open source, nor further maintained and developed by the "owner" who's thrown it away. I consider that a shame in the world of software, whenever and wherever it happens.

When a company ceases support of a software product, it should automatically, legally go into public ownership and public domain, period. That's the only appropriate way to manage the evolution of software on this planet.

Meanwhile, the few things I could've wished for from FSX -- move to 64-bit with a larger memory model, support of many cores, more extensive video card (SLI) and storage management (file and directory architecture) options -- will probably never be done, and all those things would resolve the remaining comparatively minor headaches present in the codebase.

Unfortunately, while most programmers will argue they can "take over" a legacy codebase and run with it, that's often not the case -- lost with the Aces Studio is the expertise and artistry of the original team, and unless that team can find a way to pass it on in some way, it will not be recovered.

Anyways, Prepar3D sounds like a great effort, and when it can model and simulate as many different things simultaneously, with as much flexibility as FSX can, I'll consider it; but I think like most of these contenders, DCS included, it only does a few things that FSX does well, instead of the whole suite; and the whole suite is what I've always loved about Flight Simulator.

So, I expect with all its memory and CPU-bound processing limitations, FSX will have a long life ahead of it.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: PREPAR3D?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 2:16 pm 
Offline
Senior Master Sergeant

Joined: Sat Mar 25, 2006 9:22 am
Posts: 1730
Location: Somewhere in the Middle, UK.
Realtrance: For the majority of intents and purposes, Prepar3D *is* FSX.

It has tweaks, minor improvements and significantly different licensing, but the base code is pretty much the same. Anything FSX can do, P3D can do, plus more. It's also still in development, with 64-bit support planned, although no timescale as to when the 64-bit version will be released has been stated, quite sensibly.

That said, I agree entirely, right now the only limitation on FSX's lifespan is the MS licensing server. Certainly not what can be done with it.

Cheers,

Ian P.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: PREPAR3D?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 7:33 pm 
Offline
Airman First Class

Joined: Tue Dec 25, 2012 12:57 am
Posts: 53
Hi Ian,

I didn't know, thanks for the clarification. When you say that, do you mean all the different simulation systems and tools, as well as content? Or just the core code base?

Good to hear they're working on 64-bit in either case. We're reaching the point where full-scale computational fluid dynamics can be realized easily inside a home PC, along with everything else, so exciting times indeed!

Ok I have to remember there is Wikipedia...... I've clearly been under a rock the past few years. :)

It doesn't have all the Boeing commercial jets of course, but I guess that makes sense. :)

Good to read they retained some Aces Studio folks, too!


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 51 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot], Nick - A2A and 5 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group