The A2A Simulations Community

As long as noone died, everything is ok. It is like they say to parents in children camps: "As long as your child is found in the end, we will not tell you how many times we had to call search-and-rescue". As long as the plane doesn't crash, it doesn't matter how many times it almost crashed.

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Владимир Левков/Vladimir Levkov

Aviation is proof that,given the will,we have the capacity to achieve the impossible

There's a vacant captains job at Aeroflot. Interested?

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POTR
"Only birds and fools fly and even the birds don't fly at night"

Always!I'll have to wait another 5-6 years, though...University and pilot training take time....

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Владимир Левков/Vladimir Levkov

Aviation is proof that,given the will,we have the capacity to achieve the impossible

Don't confuse the type of contamination either. They get a lot of "dry" snow over there, compared to the "wet" snow over here, so it was probably deemed that it was not a factor. "Dry" snow won't stick or affect the airflow over the wings, unlike "wet" snow that will form ice at the surface.

There have been plenty of accidents in the US/Europe involving ice on the wings over the years. I can't think of many Russian airliners that crashed due to that particular problem - the Russians live in that environment and have far more experience with it.

Best regards,
Robin.

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A2A/AccuSim. 'nuff said!

Seen things like this when I lived in Alaska..... but anyways.

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There is no confusion. The regulations clearly state that *ANY* contamination must be removed. Experience doesn't mean a thing. The rules are the rules and you follow them. Period.

Personally, I don't care what you guys have seen in the past or where. Anyone in the US, Canada, or Europe who flies with any contamination on the wing is doing so ILLEGALLY. If they're flying under private rules, then it's unlikely they'll get caught or any penalties put upon them unless they kill someone other than themselves, but if you're being paid to fly passengers or cargo, you agree by that very pilot certificate to conduct yourself in a professional manner and to follow all the regulations, whether you like them or not. The regulations require that the top ALL flight surfaces be free of contamination of any kind except for small amounts of frost on very specific areas depending on aircraft type and it's not an option. There's no arguing or disagreeing about it. It's written in stone and the report out of the Russian Air Ministry proves that it's the case even for Russia.

As for aircraft in Russia or the Eastern Bloc crashing due to icing - look about 2/3 down the link provided above. The following crashes are listed -



I suspect this is not a complete list as the Soviet era accident statistics and reports are notoriously incomplete with many accidents simply being ignored.

Planes have crashed due to icing and snow accumulation, many on takeoff. The regulations are there for a reason - they were written in blood.

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Not sure how to take that comment. You are correct - follow the law. We are talking about Russia however.

Let's say the jet is cold soaked. Let's say the snow was the dry stuff - not sticky as is commonly found in the US/Europe - and the OAT is presently 25 C below freezing. Not much chance of ice - it must be in a liquid state to form, which it wasn't prior to hitting the wing.

Best regards,
Robin.

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A2A/AccuSim. 'nuff said!

Read the link. The Russian Air Ministry clearly states that they follow the ICAO standards. Snow is contamination. Thus it must be removed. Period.

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Ahh! In that case then......

Best regards,
Robin.

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A2A/AccuSim. 'nuff said!