DC-3 crash on takeoff in Burnet, TX - Wonder what happened?

[Hobart Escin]

Video is here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sfosck22574

I'm no expert on the DC-3 by any means, however I know that the normal technique on takeoff calls for the pilot to push forward on the yoke with considerable force to raise the tail and get the rudder into the airstream for directional control as soon as possible. In this incident, for whatever reason, the tail stayed down throughout the takeoff roll. Thoughts?

[DHenriques_]

Video is here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sfosck22574

I'm no expert on the DC-3 by any means, however I know that the normal technique on takeoff calls for the pilot to push forward on the yoke with considerable force to raise the tail and get the rudder into the airstream for directional control as soon as possible. In this incident, for whatever reason, the tail stayed down throughout the takeoff roll. Thoughts?

The investigation is in progress. Please do not open a speculation thread here.
Thank you
Dudley Henriques

[cflord]

Dudley is correct, the investigation is on-going and we'll find out what happened in due time. What matters now is all aboard the airplane survived!

Keep the shiny side up and the dirty side down!

Ret SMSgt Cliff Lord - C-130 Flight Engineer & Mechanic

[Piper_EEWL]

First of all I’m glad that everyone on board was able to escape and I hope the people injured will recover fully and soon.

Secondly what a tragic loss of a beautiful airplane.

[CAPFlyer]

The only thing I'll say we know for sure at this point is that they were dealing with a 20* crosswind at 8 knots gusting to 16 knots. This would have been a contributing factor, but how much of one will be left to the investigation to determine.

I'm just glad that everyone got out okay and the one gentleman who was burned the worst is expected to be okay (he was the last one out).

[DHenriques_]

The only thing I'll say we know for sure at this point is that they were dealing with a 20* crosswind at 8 knots gusting to 16 knots. This would have been a contributing factor, but how much of one will be left to the investigation to determine.

I'm just glad that everyone got out okay and the one gentleman who was burned the worst is expected to be okay (he was the last one out).

DON'T speculate on this accident here.PERIOD! And that means comments on the wind and ANYTHING that YOU consider "might be a factor".
I'll repeat this once more. We DON'T speculate on accidents that are current and under investigation on these forums.
If you have an opinion on wind or anything else concerning this accident keep it to yourself !
I'm sorry to have to be so blunt but this is a serious issue. Both Scott and I have spoken on it and that should be enough..........but obviously this one policy we ask for to be observed here on the forums needs to be restated.
Nuff said!
Dudley Henriques

[CAPFlyer]

Dudley, I was not speculating. I was stating fact. Weather is *ALWAYS* a factor in accidents. I know that this thread may have started off on the wrong foot and there's some pretty stupid things being said elsewhere, but nothing on here is anywhere near that.

[DHenriques_]

Dudley, I was not speculating. I was stating fact. Weather is *ALWAYS* a factor in accidents. I know that this thread may have started off on the wrong foot and there's some pretty stupid things being said elsewhere, but nothing on here is anywhere near that.

BULLSHIT! Weather is NOT always a factor in accidents. And your post was the very essence of speculation. Anytime someone mentions that this or that "could have been a factor"........THAT is speculation !
And I don't require you lecturing me on ANYTHING pertaining to aircraft accidents. I'm up to my teeth in accident investigation as we speak.
Just let it go CAP FLYER. You don't want to go this route with me...........trust me !
Dudley Henriques

[ImpendingJoker]

@Dudley
I will not speculate but, asking a forum full of aviation enthusiasts to NOT speculate is like asking a fish not swim. I abide by the rule even though I've never agreed with it but, your reply to CAPFlyer was way off base. Many times people have been chided for using the type of language that you have used in your reply. While it may be true that it has been stated a few times on this forum, I can not help but think that this response is neither gauged nor professional and not what I have come to expect after being on this forum for going on 6 years and yes I am aware that we are all human and mistakes can be made and words can be said in the heat of the moment but, you have to click a button to post like that and it should have been ample time to think about how you worded your response. Many times in life both here and on other forums I've typed out heated replies only to delete them and not post them after I spent many minutes typing out a not so formulated reply. This is not one of those times however.
Sitting agog...

[Tim-HH]

Calm down, Dudley! Your tone is rude and unacceptable. CAPFlyer is a well-respected member of this community and doesn't deserve to be treated that way

Greetings
Tim

[DHenriques_]

@Dudley
I will not speculate but, asking a forum full of aviation enthusiasts to NOT speculate is like asking a fish not swim. I abide by the rule even though I've never agreed with it but, your reply to CAPFlyer was way off base. Many times people have been chided for using the type of language that you have used in your reply. While it may be true that it has been stated a few times on this forum, I can not help but think that this response is neither gauged nor professional and not what I have come to expect after being on this forum for going on 6 years and yes I am aware that we are all human and mistakes can be made and words can be said in the heat of the moment but, you have to click a button to post like that and it should have been ample time to think about how you worded your response. Many times in life both here and on other forums I've typed out heated replies only to delete them and not post them after I spent many minutes typing out a not so formulated reply. This is not one of those times however.
Sitting agog...

Sorry you feel this way.

Let me make this as clear as I can.
We basically have one request we make of our forum members. We say request because we don't want to have to moderate these forums. We trust our forum members to police themselves concerning this request. Most people do that quite well and we leave the forums to each individual to do the right thing.
Here is why we have this "request".
I am active as a safety consultant for literally every governing aviation authority on the planet. I deal every day in back engineering accident material that coupled with suggestion helps decrease aviation accidents involving pilots flying high performance airplanes all around the world. This is serious business not play time.
I came here years ago as I enjoy flight simulation as a hobby. I repeat, as a hobby. In my real world of aviation, NO ONE speculates about aircraft accidents under investigation. We don't associate with people who speculate about aircraft accidents.
If we discover one of our own who speculates about an accident we get rid of them. To be blunt, we simply do not tolorate this in our community.
Now this being said, Scott and I both agreed years ago that because of the above, AND because it is generally frowned upon in real world aviation circles, and because A2A as well as myself is deeply invested and involved in real world aviation, that we would have a strict rule here on our forums that NO ONE shall engage in accident speculation after an accident while an active investigation is in progress. This includes ANYTHING a poster might believe relevant to any specific accident.

Accidents post investigation are open game for any comment one would like to make, but NOT before that. Speculation marks those doing it as unprofessional and amateurish and marks any location that allows such activity as not being worthy of serious consideration in the world of serious aviation.
We don't want that to happen here. We have a sticky in the Pilot's Lounge that states this in plain simple terms that everyone knows is there and thank God most of our forum members abide by to the letter.
The bottom line on this is that I can not be associated with any organization that by it's behavior marks me personally as unprofessional. This is serious enough that if it became a common practice here to speculate on accidents, I would personally have to leave A2A and these forums. This would not make me happy and it would not make A2A happy. I won't speak for others here on these forums.
I jumped on CAP FLYER because he knows about the rule we have here and posted speculation anyway on an accident that happened yesterday. Then he proceeded to lecture me. I don't respond well to people who do this. I had replied in a friendly manner to the original poster about speculation. Either CAP Flyer didn't bother to read the post or he ignored it. I don't mince words on this issue when people so this, CAP Flyer or otherwise.
I'm sorry you find this objectionable but believe me I can live with that. What I can not and will not live with is having ANYONE on our forums disregarding our simple stated and posted as a sticky request concerning accident speculation.
Dudley Henriques

[DHenriques_]

Calm down, Dudley! Your tone is rude and unacceptable. CAPFlyer is a well-respected member of this community and doesn't deserve to be treated that way

Greetings
Tim

CAP Flyer will remain respected as long as he follows the policy on accidents as stated in the stickies on the Pilot's Lounge Forum.
Dudley Henriques

[jeepinforfun]

Wow

[DHenriques_]

The "request" is very simple concerning posting of accident speculation. There should be no confusion about what is asked for here. Most of you can disregard this notice as only a few need to be reminded. We deeply appreciate your help in keeping these forums free from accident speculation.
Once the investigation is over, feel free to comment as you wish.
Thank you
Dudley Henriques




SIMPLE FORUM GUIDELINES

This forum exists because good people love to post all kinds of news, share stories, ask questions, and learn.

The primary rule here is, we obviously can't allow any of our community members to be personally attacked for any reason. This is rare, but it does happen. A personal attack is when someone strays off the subject / topic, and makes a negative comment about someone personally. 99% of the people here know this already, but this rule is for the 1% that don't.

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While aircraft accidents can be posted here, people should strictly avoid offering their opinions about what may or may not have happened while it is currently under investigation. For example, if you were involved in an accident and were the subject of an investigation, you would feel very uncomfortable and upset reading about others offering speculating about what may or may not have happened. We leave this to the investigators who are the only ones who have all the facts. This is to protect pilots and their families.

We almost never have to step in and moderate anything in this amazing community, which is the way we like it. People here are of a special breed and our members seem to have their own way of getting along. But a few times a year, we do need to moderate posts and I hope the simple guidelines above help to keep this at a bare minimum.

Thank you everyone for making this such a great (best) place to be,
Scott.

_________________
A2A Simulations Inc.

[bkmetz2x205]

To Dudley,

Your expertise in accident investigation is appreciated. This is an area that you appear to be passionate about. Human nature seems to cause us all to protect the things we feel strongly about.

With that in mind, I have to say that your strong response is the most unprofessional thing I have read on the A2A forums. It is clear the simple forum guidelines do not allow for speculation, but ultimately isn't the overriding principle in the guidelines mutual respect? Even when we post something in error?

My hope is that your response doesn't taint the respect that you deserve as an expert in your field.

-B