Upgrading RAM and need advice.

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MX-Leader
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Upgrading RAM and need advice.

Post by MX-Leader »

Im upgrading my Computer from 8 Gb to 16 Gb of RAM... These are the two options. One is faster than the other and that is all I know for the same price. Im looking for something plug and play basically, Im not savvy enough to tune voltages or anything like that. I have added a hard drive and switched out my graphics card myself, with lots of help from Youtube. Why would I not choose the faster one? All suggestions and help and criticism is welcome. Right now Im running 2x4GB of the same basic model but a few years older at 1866 speed.

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product. ... 6820231528


https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product. ... 6820231568

Many thanks to all of you who chime in.

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Re: Upgrading RAM and need advice.

Post by shortspecialbus »

The timing on the "slower" one is considerably better. I think I'd go with that one over the "faster" one.

DDR3 1866 (PC3 14900)
Timing 10-11-10-30
CAS Latency 10

vs

DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800)
Timing 9-9-9-24
CAS Latency 9

You will see better benefit from the timing and CAS latency I think, with flight sim. Some other things would benefit more from the higher speed.

-stefan

Edit: This explains it a bit: http://www.tomshardware.com/answers/id- ... speed.html otherwise plenty more on google if you search for ram latency vs speed, etc.

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Re: Upgrading RAM and need advice.

Post by MX-Leader »

Thank you.. That is just the kind of information I needed.,. Doing some research I also found that Windows 7 Home Premium has a max RAM usage of 16Gb.... Is this true? It would do me no good to go to 32GB?

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Re: Upgrading RAM and need advice.

Post by Oracle427 »

Correct on Home Premium.
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Alan_A
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Re: Upgrading RAM and need advice.

Post by Alan_A »

Actually I'm not sure if the Tom's Hardware advice on speed vs. latency is still current. Also, their example involves an unrealistic difference between CAS latency (6 vs. 9) against a small difference in timing.

In general, CAS latency (delay between command and execution) and timing work together. A small uptick in CAS latency will still get you better performance if the clock speed is higher. Good information here from Crucial's website.

How the software uses memory counts too. When I was researching my latest build (last spring), I was persuaded that in practical terms, in P3D, raw speed will have more impact on performance than latency.

In your case, I'd be inclined to go with the DDR3 1866 CAS 10 over the DDR3 1600 CAS 9.

Are you on P3Dv4 (64 bit) or P3DV3 or FSX (32 bit)? If you're on P3DV4, you can take full advantage of more system memory. In that case, a Windows upgrade (to 64-bit Professional) could allow you to make use of 32 Gb. That might or might not be useful depending on how hungry your add-ons are. There are some newer, more demanding ones like the FSL Airbus that list 16 Gb as a minimum spec. Obviously, if you're not on a 64-bit sim, then this last point is moot. In practice, 16 Gb seems to be plenty for most reasonable add-ons.

Hope this is helpful.
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Re: Upgrading RAM and need advice.

Post by shortspecialbus »

Yeah, I may be using outdated info with my recommendation on timings mattering quite a bit. I could be wrong on that.

I tend to overspend so I get the best of both, since it's usually less than a $100 difference over the life of the computer. Right now is a shitty time to be buying RAM or Video cards especially because of the cryptominers buying out stock of everything, especially video cards. Bitcoin needs to crash back down to low values before that fixes itself, I fear.

-stefan

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Alan_A
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Re: Upgrading RAM and need advice.

Post by Alan_A »

I used to worry about latency a lot, but was relieved to be told to focus on speed alone. Of course, it might just be because I've reached a stage where I want to have fewer things to worry about... 8)

Re: bitcoin... just wait.
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Re: Upgrading RAM and need advice.

Post by crippy »

Be glad you are looking for DDR3! as DDR4 prices are quite high {Even DDR3 is seeing a bit too}
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Re: Upgrading RAM and need advice.

Post by MX-Leader »

Im running 32 bit FSX SE w/ DX10 fixer and it runs smoothly and wont be upgrading to P3DV4 until I build the next computer. Im also using XP11 stock.

Im running a OCd 4+ gb processor an Nvidia 970 graphics card. 32Gb sounds like overkill on my five year old computer right now, but when I build the next computer I'll probably build it for P3DV4. I'm just trying to squeeze another couple years out of my computer and not dump a lot of money into it considering it runs everything pretty well. A2A, Orbx, Active Sky, Chaseplane, Track IR with frames locked at 30 fps and with years of tweaking, very few stutters and since DX10, no OOM errors. I do get frequently prompted to switch to Windows basic colors or something like that but it never seems to affect the performance of my sim.

I figure I still have hundreds of hours in A2A airplanes to go, Im not tired of what I've got. Shoot, I just bought the B-17 and still don't have the Connie or 182.

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Re: Upgrading RAM and need advice.

Post by Fragmentum »

I'm in a similar boat and need additional memory in my homebuilt system. My memory is a little older in a system I built in 2012. I've got Mushkin Enhanced Redline 8GB (2x4GB) DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) 7-9-8-24 in it now and would like to match that with an additional 8GB memory, but these sticks are obsolete.
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Alan_A
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Re: Upgrading RAM and need advice.

Post by Alan_A »

@MX-Leader -

In that case you should be fine with 16 Gb for the time being. You can go for more on your next system. Even on 64-bit P3D, people seem to be doing well on 16 Gb, though if you can afford it, more overhead is better, especially if you run lots of add-ons. XP-11, on the other hand, will take all the RAM you can throw at it.

@Fragmentum -

Basically the same advice, I'd go for the fastest clock speed I could afford - with the caveat that RAM speed will only do you so much good if the rest of your system can't take advantage of it. If you're happy with your overall performance as it is now, you could stick with the same speed and timings, and just increase the capacity. Of course you don't want to combine mismatched sticks, so you're probably better off finding a 16 Gb set (2x8 Gb). I typically default to GSkill (Ripjaws or Trident series), but that's mainly force of habit. I'm sure you can do OK with any of the major brands.
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Re: Upgrading RAM and need advice.

Post by MX-Leader »

ordered the 1866 2x8Gb

Thank you all who replied. It was very helpful and not the most fun or interesting topic to comment on but I appreciate it. Great community here. Its not what you know but rather who you know.

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Fragmentum
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Re: Upgrading RAM and need advice.

Post by Fragmentum »

Alan_A wrote:@Fragmentum -

Basically the same advice, I'd go for the fastest clock speed I could afford - with the caveat that RAM speed will only do you so much good if the rest of your system can't take advantage of it. If you're happy with your overall performance as it is now, you could stick with the same speed and timings, and just increase the capacity. Of course you don't want to combine mismatched sticks, so you're probably better off finding a 16 Gb set (2x8 Gb). I typically default to GSkill (Ripjaws or Trident series), but that's mainly force of habit. I'm sure you can do OK with any of the major brands.
Thanks Alan_A, the reason I am wanting more memory is probably I mistakenly maxed all my sliders out in FSX and after flying low to the ground in my P-40 for about 10 minuets I got the 'Sorry, you have maxed out your available memory' and got the CTD. I have End It All on my system and did not free up any RAM prior to starting FSX, and I don't really need to max out some of my sliders in the sim.
There are several RAM upgrades I can consider, and even if the timings are faster in upgrade RAM, I could reset them in BIOS, I believe, to match what I have now. Right?

Don
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Alan_A
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Re: Upgrading RAM and need advice.

Post by Alan_A »

Unfortunately the problem you're having doesn't involve physical memory. You're hitting the so-called "virtual address space" (VAS) limit - which happens because 32-bit programs like FSX can only use 4 Gb of RAM at a time, no matter how much is physically present in your computer. Adding more physical memory won't help. More physical memory can allow you to do things like run more tasks simultaneously (like a browser in the background). But at some point FSX is going to hit the 4 Gb VAS barrier. This doesn't usually happen if you're just running the base program and default aircraft. But add-ons consume more VAS - if you combine, say, an A2A aircraft with an ORBX region and a payware airport and a weather engine, you'll run through available VAS in a hurry. The only solution is to limit the number of add-ons you run, and settings for things like autogen density. You can monitor VAS with modules like FSUIPC. You're already on the way to a cure if you're managing your sliders. The only complete cure is to move to a 64-bit sim like P3D4 (or X-Plane 11 or Flightsim World). P3D4 has other things to recommend it, but removing the VAS barrier is among the biggest advantages.

About mixing and matching RAM - unfortunately, the motherboard's memory controller won't allow you to set speeds and timings for individual sticks - the settings apply to all installed RAM. The additional problem is that sticks of RAM have different manufacturing tolerances, even with the same nominal speeds and timings. That's why you're better off with a new matched set - unless you can exactly match the RAM you already have installed. But again - throwing more RAM at FSX won't prevent CTDs like the one you just had.

It's a strange phenomenon - we all spent years, maybe decades, worrying about frame rates. It's only recently that hardware has evolved to the point where we can get consistently good, smooth frames - which means we're free to run into the next problem, which is VAS. It's a kind of progress, I guess - just not a happy one to experience.

Sorry the news isn't better, but I hope this helps.
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Re: Upgrading RAM and need advice.

Post by MX-Leader »

Don,

I still run FSX-SE (32 bit) with very few problems. I haven't felt the need to go P3DV4 (64 bit) yet. The DX10 fixer has stopped most OOMs for me and many other people. If you want to stay with legacy FSX it's a must have in my opinion. I use Chaseplane and it has a VAS counter.

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