The A2A Simulations Community

The Ta-152H can really get up there. I have only flown the 152H so far, but I can already see I'll be spending plenty of time flying this excellent package.

_________________
Dan Johnson

At 40,000 + ft it handles like a dream. I love this aircraft.

She is a fantastic aircraft, a real joy to fly.

Wow you guys made a really nice aircraft and glad to see that you have the politically incorrect but historically accurate swastika(Hakenkreuz) on the tail.
One question can the Germans and Austrians legally download her?
Or is that a no no.

_________________
Son of a U.S.A.A.F. 15th Air Force 463rd bomb group 772nd squadron B17 pilot.
Video of my dad on a B-17(So you can kind of meet him-he passed away in 2004)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bGOP53TkGtA

When we made FirePower and Wings of Power for the German retail market, we had to remove the Swastikas. There may be an issue in some way, but I think anyone interested in enforcing that law would see this is no different than a History Channel project. We call Wings of Power "History in a Box."

Scott.

_________________
A2A Simulations Inc.

I thought political correctness was dead anyway? PC has nothing to do with a historical replication.

Political correctness dead? Where do you live P-51? Think about where the NeoNazi movement does a lot of propaganda work, PC/internet. As far as the broken cross goes, you would have to get rid of every book, photo etc of WWII in Germany to enforce that. I would think they'd be most concerned about its display in public. Making it illegal to have a book or on a virtual airplane with a broken cross on it would be a little hard to enforce. Someone marching down a street, flying it on a flag, there should be an issue with that! The swastika shouldn't be hidden from anyone, it should be a reminder! Semper Fi, MudMarine

Hi mudmarine,

Your point is well taken, however in Germany the subject is still a sensitive one. Current Germans, most of whom were not even born when the War ended, have to live with their recent history, and whilst no-one is suggesting that the events of 1937-1945 should be conveniently forgotten some aspects of the period, such as the Swastika, which is used as a symbol by the Neo-Nazis, are considered unacceptable.

Whether one agrees with the national policy or not it exists and responsible companies such as Shockwave have to accept the realities of the situation.

I have a German simming friend who was able to visit the UK a year or so ago, and together we visited the Imperial War Museum at Duxford. Touring the hangars we came across a guided tour. On any other day the "standard commentary" about how "we" won the Battle of Britain would have been unremarkable, but when you hear it standing next to a young German still trying to live with the history of his forefathers it takes on a rather different aspect.

Alastair

Ah, but to take the point to the next level, `we` ALL won the Battle of Britain - the German nation gained as much from it in the long run as the rest of the world - the eventual removal of an evil, dictatorial regime, without which neither we Brits, nor our German friends would enjoy the freedoms we see today...

While I can see why the Germans are still so sensitive on the issue of the Hakenkreuz, and the politically charged emotions that surround it, I tend to side with those who question the validity of atttempting to hide from history that which was a historical fact - a crime which Holocaust deniars find themselves in prison over. The Holocaust and the other evils of the Nazi regime are historical FACT. The symbols of that regime extended far beyond the misuse of an ancient symbol (the hooked cross is documented at over 4,000 years old and is a recognised symbol in Hinduism, Janaism, Buddhism and even Heathenry...

My take is that to `mystify` an item by outlawing it merely provides a clarion call for those who wish to unite behind it for whatever ends - one cannot remove the Hakenkreuz from history, so perhaps the best thing to do would be to grant it it's true place - as a temporary aberration of the true nature of the symbol. It's actual weakness would then be displaye for all to see, it's power weakened, it's malevolence de-mystified.

Trouble is, this kind of censorship is a slippery slope. Why should we not also ban other symbols of nazi oppression - the lightning symbol for example (oh how weather forecasters would protest), or the Stuka, or the HE1-11 or the U-Boat. And VW had better get that `Volkswagen` off the market pretty bloody quick and change their company name. While we're at it, Hitler was an Austrian. So let's get those little leather shorts banend as well.

The real risk is that this kind of oppression is far less obvious than jack-booted stormtroopers goose-stepping around the Brandenburg Gate but actually far more dangerous for it's subtelty.

Hi Simon,

Whilst I (and my German friend) wouldn't really disagree with the sentiments in the first paragraph, the reality is that those neo-Nazi organisations that exist have taken the Swastika as a rallying symbol, and do continue to attempt to re-write history themselves to make out that such "evils" as the Holocaust were fabrications of the World Jewish Conspiracy........

Ultimately it doesn't matter what you or I think, this is a decision made by Germans that is, in their estimation, what is best for Germany. No-one is pretending that past events never occurred (except some misguided neo-Nazis) or trying to remove the Swastika from history, just deciding that the symbol of that regime not be used.

Personally I can accept the symbol as merely being a "heraldic device" that ws used as a national symbol much like the RAF roundel or US "Star and Bar" however I am not German and to many Germans the symbol carries far more symbolic weight than many appreciate.

In the end we don't have to agree with the policy, just accept that this is what has been decided.

In any event, German simmers do have a choice. They have access to the Internet and can choose to keep their WOP planes Swastika-less or download alternative liveries with them on.

Alastair

What they (the Germans) should do is learn to laugh at it.

...And that is a far from facetious comment. Humour is one of the most powerful weapons known to Man.

Banning something almost always serves the opposite purpose to that intended.
Driving something underground succeeds only in removing it from sight, not removing it.

Holding it up to ridicule lessens its power, removes its totemic influence, and at a stroke removes much of the malevolence derived mainly from it's iconographic significance as an `underground` symbol. The HK holds more than four millenia of significance as an instrument of peace, yet it gets banned because a bunch of megalomaniacs who couldn't spot a barmy dysfunctional Austrian with a dictator complex misappropriated it for a decade or so.

Knee-jerk reactions by short-term-thinking driven bureaucrats who lack the moral fibre to deal with real issues is the real problem. And I don't just limit that to the German government... All that has happened here is to `criminalise` upstanding members of the community who might want to visualise things as they were, not as politicians would like to sanitise them as having been...

It's a crying shame that the things our parents and grandparents fought and died for should be abused in such a fashion - and plaudits to Shockwave for resisting the temptation to pander to uninformed and incorrect `political correctness` which is fast becoming more of a threat than the abuses it desires to stamp out.

A note to politicians:
Just because I choose to fly a simulated plane with a swastika doesn't make me a Nazi.
Not letting me choose to do so makes YOU one step closer to being one...