The A2A Simulations Community

"Come share your passion for flight"
It is currently Thu Nov 23, 2017 9:06 pm

All times are UTC - 5 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 17 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Sun Oct 01, 2017 9:51 pm 
Offline
Staff Sergeant
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jun 10, 2012 6:23 pm
Posts: 430
Location: (S05) U.S.A.
Hello,
Quick question here on the L049's engines. What is the Time Between Overhaul? As you can see below I have well over 500 hours on the engines and 1 & 2 are needing repair. I do not know why they would go first unless I'm not letting them warm up enough as they are the last started. I always wait until the Oil-Out temps are above 40C.

Anyways, what is the normal TBO for these engines?

This latest flight was from Churchill (CYYQ), Nunavut, Canada to Resolute Bay (CYRB), Nunavut, Canada. I'm not sure they have the facilities to do the overhaul in Resolute Bay :D but that may just have to happen. I'd hate to risk the lives of 44 passengers plus crew trying to get back to a proper shop. Hour discrepancies between career hours and engine hours is due to training flights prior to starting my career.

Thanks much
Roger

Image

_________________
------ Fly Well, Be Nice, Have Fun ! ! ! ------

My YouTube channel with lots of flying videos
Asus X99a-i7 5930K @ 4500Hz-G.Skill 16GB 3000-980 Ti SC-950 Pro NVMe 256GB (OS)-850 Evo 500GBx2 Raid0-3TB HDD-EKWB Custom Cooling Loop
Proud pilot P51civ.T6.P40.B17.B377.L049


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2017 8:44 am 
Offline
A2A Aviation Consultant
User avatar

Joined: Mon Mar 03, 2008 12:06 pm
Posts: 1941
Location: Wichita Falls, Texas, USA
TBO can vary anywhere from 100 hours to 2000 hours, it's very dependent on how you handle them. The better you run them, the longer they last. So if it says they need overhaul, then that's the TBO for that particular cycle. ;)

In the real world, the airlines and major operators (some smaller operators too) would have spare engines and would simply do a swap and then overhaul the "bad" engine in the shop and take their time with it to make sure it was done right before putting it back on the wing of the next airplane that needed an engine change. It is only later in life when on-wing overhauls were completed or the airplane grounded while the engine was overhauled off-wing because it was cost prohibitive to keep many extra engines lying around that had been properly "pickled" for storage until needed. So don't feel like you're "not hitting TBO" or anything. You're just having the crew do an engine change so they can repair the engine off wing and not worry about holding you up.

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2017 11:24 pm 
Offline
Staff Sergeant
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jun 10, 2012 6:23 pm
Posts: 430
Location: (S05) U.S.A.
Thanks for the reply CAPFlyer,
To be honest, I was hoping to get a little more life out of the engines. Not knowing how Accu-Sim determines wear-n-tear leaves me in the dark a little. For instance, could it just be that the mags are getting weak or maybe a weak starter? For this reason I appreciate the detailed hangers of the B17, P51 and P40. It is easier to determine if my management of the airplane is causing excessive wear.

I do know that even though I thought I was taking care of the B17 when I first started flying it, after many hours I discovered that I was still learning better practices. By then the initial damage to the engines was done and I was stuck with them. I was, however, able to make them last over 1000 hours by rebuilding components as they wore.

Anyways, I hoping to make it to Anchorage in the next couple of flights. I'm sure they have a proper facility to make the repairs. Parts have been ordered and drop shipped there. Hopefully I make it there.

Cheers
Roger

_________________
------ Fly Well, Be Nice, Have Fun ! ! ! ------

My YouTube channel with lots of flying videos
Asus X99a-i7 5930K @ 4500Hz-G.Skill 16GB 3000-980 Ti SC-950 Pro NVMe 256GB (OS)-850 Evo 500GBx2 Raid0-3TB HDD-EKWB Custom Cooling Loop
Proud pilot P51civ.T6.P40.B17.B377.L049


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 9:05 am 
Offline
A2A Aviation Consultant
User avatar

Joined: Mon Mar 03, 2008 12:06 pm
Posts: 1941
Location: Wichita Falls, Texas, USA
Just remember that COTS is designed around what you as an airline crew would deal with. Even in military service in WWII, the crew of the B-17 was also a large part of the maintenance of the B-17 and so having detailed reports is part of the thing. It also dovetails well into post-war private operations of the B-17 where again it's maintained by the guys who fly it. However, with the B-377 and L-049, the flight crew has little to do with the airplane once the engines shutdown. There is a whole maintenance department that takes care of it. All the crew needs to know is that it was broke and that it got fixed. So, since there's more crew involvement in the flight (AI wise), there had to be a trade off, and that was in the maintenance and just letting the "maintenance forces" handle it. :)

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 11:06 am 
Offline
Staff Sergeant
User avatar

Joined: Sun Nov 30, 2014 7:07 pm
Posts: 390
Location: US
How much oil are you using with your hours that high, Roger? When I got to relatively high time on the 377 engines then oil capacity became the limiting factor on flight length rather than fuel. I had several engine out landings because I had to shut down for low oil.

_________________
Image

AviationAtWar on Youtube


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 9:26 pm 
Offline
Staff Sergeant
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jun 10, 2012 6:23 pm
Posts: 430
Location: (S05) U.S.A.
AviationAtWar wrote:
How much oil are you using with your hours that high, Roger? When I got to relatively high time on the 377 engines then oil capacity became the limiting factor on flight length rather than fuel. I had several engine out landings because I had to shut down for low oil.

At the end of my last 4 hour flight all oil levels were equal and total was at 88%. That is about average for me.

All engines run equally with MP, RPM, oil pressure, oil temp, BMEP, PPH fuel flow etc. Engine 3 has always been my worry as it runs hotter by far than the rest and I have to override the FE on the cowl flaps during climb. He likes to run engine 3 at 235C during climb for some reason.

CAPFlyer wrote:
Just remember that COTS is designed around what you as an airline crew would deal with.

I'm aware of the scenario of the Connie being an airline pilot in the 50's with not much say-so as to maintenance. I understand this and I have been involved in a thread or two voicing my wish for a more in-depth maintenance hanger. We all fly within our own scenario and mine is a modern day 'owner/operator/crew chief' in the Connie. For this reason I would enjoy a better hanger but also know that this will not happen.

However, a few questions about it;
1] If I am just a pilot that clocks in when I am called, how do I have the authority to tell the airline when to replace/rebuild an engine? If I have that authority I should be able to tell them that the mags on engine 1 need replaced.
2] Captain "X" clocks in and flies route "Y" for airline "Z" and after each flight airline "Z" is replacing cylinders. Airline "Z" will be having a chat with Captain "X" and telling him what he is doing wrong that is costing money. Is there a way to have this feedback with Accu-Sim?
3] I know that resources are very tight in the 32bit platform and are the limiting factor for more details. Does the 64bit platform offer more room for modeling and more advanced features?

Thanks for the feedback. I am currently FL240 from Resolute Bay to Inuvik with two sick engines. Hopeing they will make one more flight into Anchorage :shock:

Cheers
Roger

_________________
------ Fly Well, Be Nice, Have Fun ! ! ! ------

My YouTube channel with lots of flying videos
Asus X99a-i7 5930K @ 4500Hz-G.Skill 16GB 3000-980 Ti SC-950 Pro NVMe 256GB (OS)-850 Evo 500GBx2 Raid0-3TB HDD-EKWB Custom Cooling Loop
Proud pilot P51civ.T6.P40.B17.B377.L049


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 7:50 am 
Offline
A2A Aviation Consultant
User avatar

Joined: Mon Mar 03, 2008 12:06 pm
Posts: 1941
Location: Wichita Falls, Texas, USA
Actually, it's not you telling the airline to change the engine, it's the Flight Engineer. However, since you're the Captain, you'd still be the one doing the final sign-off on the maintenance log "Squawk Sheet" and the one communicating the need for repairs to the Dispatch Center.

Also, even today, the flight crew can look at a "squawk sheet" and ground the airplane for maintenance if they feel the items on it from the last flight are unsafe for them to continue with. It may be that the prior flight was fine because the weather or trip conditions were favorable, but on their leg it's going to be a problem, so they need to get it fixed or get a new airplane before making that flight. It's not a negative against the prior crew, just a reality.

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Oct 06, 2017 7:33 pm 
Offline
Staff Sergeant
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jun 10, 2012 6:23 pm
Posts: 430
Location: (S05) U.S.A.
So I made it in to Stevens Anchorage Intl just fine. 1 & 2 are still in poor condition and 3 - 4 in Fair condition.

My conundrum is whether I can carry on for a few more flights. I want to get all I can out of the engines, more so as an experiment at this point. However, I don't know what the stages are for engine condition. I've seen Excellent, Good, Fair and now Poor. Is there one more stage, maybe Bad, before we hit the condition "Kaput"? I've been keeping a very watchful eye on the gauges and the engines are not showing any signs whatsoever of being tired. Oil pressure, Oil temp, MP, RPM, BMEP, Fuel burn rate, oil usage, etc. All are the same as they have been sense they were new. I need to know if there is another stage of engine condition. If there is one more I will keep flying them with a watchful eye and see how many hours I can get out of them.

Are any others out there with more hours than what I have and what condition are your engines in?

Thanks for the feedback. I'm really curious to know.

Cheers
Roger

_________________
------ Fly Well, Be Nice, Have Fun ! ! ! ------

My YouTube channel with lots of flying videos
Asus X99a-i7 5930K @ 4500Hz-G.Skill 16GB 3000-980 Ti SC-950 Pro NVMe 256GB (OS)-850 Evo 500GBx2 Raid0-3TB HDD-EKWB Custom Cooling Loop
Proud pilot P51civ.T6.P40.B17.B377.L049


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Oct 14, 2017 3:13 am 
Offline
Airman First Class

Joined: Wed Jul 01, 2015 9:43 am
Posts: 76
Location: Paris, France
WB_FlashOver wrote:
I'm aware of the scenario of the Connie being an airline pilot in the 50's with not much say-so as to maintenance. I understand this and I have been involved in a thread or two voicing my wish for a more in-depth maintenance hanger. We all fly within our own scenario and mine is a modern day 'owner/operator/crew chief' in the Connie. For this reason I would enjoy a better hanger but also know that this will not happen.


I am also in FS since it was in black and white :mrgreen: and never stick on one plane for a long time...
But A2A arrived and the P51 and B17 stuck me for quite a long time and then...

The Connie arrived and it is the only aircraft now in my hangar. I fly her without the FE just because it makes each flight more interesting and always something to do or to check...

I even modify my setting to reflect a bit more the Connie :lol:
Image

I currently fly the Connie in the Around the World in Eighty Days of Aerosoft clubs
http://forum.aerosoft.com/index.php?/topic/127472-cool/
where 3 connies are engaged out of +/- 100 pilots and I have had engine 2 on fire during the final approach in Djibouti...

All of that to tell that as Roger said, I do miss also the B17 maintenance hangar in the Connie.
Just because it would have make her just another dimension of game in the game but also know that this will not happen, this is my only regret. Part from that she is a pepite :D

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Oct 14, 2017 6:46 pm 
Offline
A2A General
User avatar

Joined: Wed Feb 11, 2004 12:55 pm
Posts: 14742
Location: USA
The time between repairs is something that, like in real life, is very hard for us to quantify with any certainty just based on the organic nature of Accu-Sim, all the different engine management styles, and any and all random events. We place this stuff in AccuSim because it exists in the real world. It makes for enjoyable immersive simming, but means like the real world, things happen differently.

However having said that, 500 hrs sounds about right because we do shoot for about 2-4x less time in accusim than in real life. I would expect more than 500 hrs, and actually, I think you're doing quite good witjh 500 hrs so congratulations :)

Scott.

_________________
A2A Simulations Inc.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Oct 14, 2017 9:09 pm 
Offline
Staff Sergeant
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jun 10, 2012 6:23 pm
Posts: 430
Location: (S05) U.S.A.
Scott - A2A wrote:
The time between repairs is something that, like in real life, is very hard for us to quantify with any certainty just based on the organic nature of Accu-Sim, all the different engine management styles, and any and all random events. We place this stuff in AccuSim because it exists in the real world. It makes for enjoyable immersive simming, but means like the real world, things happen differently.

Thanks for the reply Scott. This is why I enjoy the Accu-Sim aircraft so much. If you always knew what to expect in the next second, 5 seconds, 5 minutes, etc it would be just another arcade game and as boring as stock FSX. The accelerated life expectancy of 2-4x is interesting, and really what I was looking for. With each flight I try to improve but not knowing where I should be makes it difficult to judge/jury/discipline myself.

Scott - A2A wrote:
However having said that, 500 hrs sounds about right because we do shoot for about 2-4x less time in accusim than in real life. I would expect more than 500 hrs, and actually, I think you're doing quite good witjh 500 hrs so congratulations :)

Scott.

Thank you Sir. I have actually decided to run them a little longer and see where I get. I hit 585 hrs on #1 and 606 hrs on #3 tonight (2 & 4 in between). 1 & 2 are in Poor condition and 3 & 4 are in Fair. Gauges are still showing that I have healthy engines so I believe I can get a few more hours out of them :roll:

Cheers
Roger

_________________
------ Fly Well, Be Nice, Have Fun ! ! ! ------

My YouTube channel with lots of flying videos
Asus X99a-i7 5930K @ 4500Hz-G.Skill 16GB 3000-980 Ti SC-950 Pro NVMe 256GB (OS)-850 Evo 500GBx2 Raid0-3TB HDD-EKWB Custom Cooling Loop
Proud pilot P51civ.T6.P40.B17.B377.L049


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Oct 14, 2017 9:29 pm 
Offline
Staff Sergeant
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jun 10, 2012 6:23 pm
Posts: 430
Location: (S05) U.S.A.
Cool wrote:
WB_FlashOver wrote:
I'm aware of the scenario of the Connie being an airline pilot in the 50's with not much say-so as to maintenance. I understand this and I have been involved in a thread or two voicing my wish for a more in-depth maintenance hanger. We all fly within our own scenario and mine is a modern day 'owner/operator/crew chief' in the Connie. For this reason I would enjoy a better hanger but also know that this will not happen.


I am also in FS since it was in black and white :mrgreen: and never stick on one plane for a long time...
But A2A arrived and the P51 and B17 stuck me for quite a long time and then...

The Connie arrived and it is the only aircraft now in my hangar. I fly her without the FE just because it makes each flight more interesting and always something to do or to check...

I even modify my setting to reflect a bit more the Connie :lol:
Image

I currently fly the Connie in the Around the World in Eighty Days of Aerosoft clubs
http://forum.aerosoft.com/index.php?/topic/127472-cool/
where 3 connies are engaged out of +/- 100 pilots and I have had engine 2 on fire during the final approach in Djibouti...

All of that to tell that as Roger said, I do miss also the B17 maintenance hangar in the Connie.
Just because it would have make her just another dimension of game in the game but also know that this will not happen, this is my only regret. Part from that she is a pepite :D

That's a very nice setup you have there Cool. It does lend itself to flying the Connie.

Last winter I was in the B-17 on my global tour. Christmas was just a day or two away. I landed the B-17 in Northern Russia at Tiksi (UEST) with all carbs froze up and barely able to make the runway. I was trying everything to keep them warm but no joy. It was something like -45C at the airfield, and cold too :wink: . Then the word came over the wire that the Connie was released and the poor old B-17 stayed there for months. I hired a local to watch after her while I made my way back to the states, in particular, to Burbank, CA. It was spring sometime when I finally decided I could rescue her from the snow and make a few hops south to warmer climate. She is still in Russia but parked at Chita (UIAA) where I hope she can winter better. I don't know when I will get back to her. I'm getting way too much enjoyment from the Connie. My P-51 and P-40 have been terribly neglected as well. Shame on me, eh?

Cheers
Roger

_________________
------ Fly Well, Be Nice, Have Fun ! ! ! ------

My YouTube channel with lots of flying videos
Asus X99a-i7 5930K @ 4500Hz-G.Skill 16GB 3000-980 Ti SC-950 Pro NVMe 256GB (OS)-850 Evo 500GBx2 Raid0-3TB HDD-EKWB Custom Cooling Loop
Proud pilot P51civ.T6.P40.B17.B377.L049


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2017 6:50 am 
Offline
Senior Airman

Joined: Fri Jun 12, 2015 8:37 am
Posts: 133
Roger, is there any noticeable effect of having "poor" engines condition ? - for example difficult and smoky start up, less power or similar


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2017 8:48 pm 
Offline
Staff Sergeant
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jun 10, 2012 6:23 pm
Posts: 430
Location: (S05) U.S.A.
Artur wrote:
Roger, is there any noticeable effect of having "poor" engines condition ? - for example difficult and smoky start up, less power or similar

Hello Artur,
I have not noticed much difference at all. Engines one & two are the worst ones and they do start harder than three & four but that is about all I can notice. I cannot tell you about smoke as I hardly ever go outside the aircraft and you can't see the engines from FE station. I have always un-selected all engines once at cruise and then manually adjust each throttle for the desired MP and the differences between engines and required throttle lever position "might" be changing a little. All gauges read the same as always for the given power settings. Oil burn, fuel burn, torque psi, etc all are reading as they always have.

I have put over 50 hours on them sense I started this thread. I have REALLY been watching the engines. So far they are still going strong.

I did some research on TBO for the R-3350 and found a few statements:

This
"The final area of improvement is that of actual operation of the engine. When the R-3350 entered service in World War II, it often did not run more than 100 hours before having to be overhauled. In airline service, it would sometimes last over 3,000 hours. It is true that the early R-3350s had design problems that were fixed as the engine matured, but another important factor was how the engine was operated. The early engines were run very hard and very hot, often overheated, flown by inexperienced crews, and maintained by poorly trained mechanics. In airline service, engines were treated very well, kept cool, flown and maintained by experienced and competent crew. They were also better instrumented and better data was kept which allowed correlation between operational practice and longevity. One of the most useful instruments introduced during the war was the torquemeter. This device measured the amount of power actually being delivered to the propeller and allowed the crew to select power settings accurately and to lean the engine correctly to prevent overheating."

and this
"Altogether, the R-3350 went through tens of thousands of design changes during its early development. Improvements were made to reduce overheating, including changing from a downdraft carbureted system to fuel injection which eliminated inconsistent fuel/air distribution. This and other modifications gradually improved reliability. As design problems were overcome, the R-3350 saw its time between overhauls increase from 100 to 400 hours by the end of the war."

Reference < http://www.pilotfriend.com/aero_engines/aero_eng_dvmt.htm >
Reference < http://www.aviation-history.com/engines/r3350.htm >

Cheers
Roger

_________________
------ Fly Well, Be Nice, Have Fun ! ! ! ------

My YouTube channel with lots of flying videos
Asus X99a-i7 5930K @ 4500Hz-G.Skill 16GB 3000-980 Ti SC-950 Pro NVMe 256GB (OS)-850 Evo 500GBx2 Raid0-3TB HDD-EKWB Custom Cooling Loop
Proud pilot P51civ.T6.P40.B17.B377.L049


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2017 7:16 am 
Offline
Senior Airman

Joined: Fri Jun 12, 2015 8:37 am
Posts: 133
So it looks like u are a good pilot and A2A did a proper research :-)


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 17 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group