Nose pitches up when gear is lowered with AP on.

[bobsk8]

I can't believe that I am just noticing this, but I was flying an approach today and the power went off in my home. I hope something in the Connie didn't get damaged when this happened. Anyway, on the next flight, I noticed that when I lowered the landing gear at around 150 knots to slow down, with the AP on, the elevator control moved to the rear, like it wanted to climb, and the nose pitched up to about a 1500 fpm climb. This happened whether I used a joystick key to lower the gear, or the lever in the cockpit. With the elevator control of the AP disconnected, this does not happen. Is this a function of the AP to counteract the lowering of the landing gear, or is something screwed up with my Connie? BTW what is the max speed for gear down, I thought I had read somewhere that it was about 150 knots.

[alan CXA651]

Hi Bob.
I am usually on manual flight when i bring the gear down and on finals , so i have never noticed this problem with the auto pilot pitching up on gear down.
regards alan.

[bobsk8]

Hi Bob.
I am usually on manual flight when i bring the gear down and on finals , so i have never noticed this problem with the auto pilot pitching up on gear down.
regards alan.

Do me a favor and try it if you get a chance. I flew around again this afternoon, and I noticed that after this gear down- elevator pitch up, the elevator moved forward back to it's original position , and the pitch up turned into a descent back to the original altitude ( almost). I guess I had had not noticed this behavior before , but since lately I have been flying on Vatsim all the time, and finding myself trying to slow down and speed up descent rate by lowering the gear while in an AP controlled descent using the gear as a speed brake sort of. Now I am thinking, as the AP increases the aircraft pitch in a turn, I imagine the AP is doing the same thing to compensate for the gear being lowered which causes a nose pitch down by commanding a pitch up when gear is lowered.

[AviationAtWar]

The Connie autopilot doesn't like keeping up with big pitch changes. I always wait to turn autopilot on until my flaps are up, and I'm always hand flying before lowering flaps and gear when landing.

I just did this quick video showing how mine acted.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dlkZzLK-UAc[/youtube]

[WB_FlashOver]

Max gear and landing light speed is 126 knots indicated from what I could find in the manual. To slow/brake you can drop first stage of flaps at 170 IAS and second stage at 140 but get to 125 before you drop flaps or extend landing lights.

Cheers
Roger

[bobsk8]

Max gear and landing light speed is 126 knots indicated from what I could find in the manual. To slow/brake you can drop first stage of flaps at 170 IAS and second stage at 140 but get to 125 before you drop flaps or extend landing lights.

Cheers
Roger

Ah ha. I had that all wrong then. I was looking at the white stripe on the airspeed indicator and thinking that flaps could not be deployed at all until around 125. No wonder I have had all this trouble slowing down for descent. Thanks.

[WB_FlashOver]

Ooopsy, typo. 125 IAS before "gear" and lights.

Roger

[bobsk8]

Ooopsy, typo. 125 IAS before "gear" and lights.

Roger

I found this thread this morning which points out the first flaps airspeed of 172mph According to the poster this is not in the A2A connie manual. There are some discussions on the topic with differing opinions, but the speeds from the real L 049 manual apparently says the first flap deployment is at 172 MPH. https://a2asimulations.com/forum/viewto ... 33&t=57365

This is a quote from one of the Connie experts on the forum who posted on this thread.

"Because your V-Speeds don't change much with weight due to the design of the wing, most operators chose to install an Airspeed Indicator with markings to show the relevant speeds visually to the pilots. If you look at the ASI, the first dot is at 100 knots, the rotate speed. The second is at 120 knots, the approach speed. The next one is at 146 knots, the gear speed. The final one is at 172 knots, the first stage flap speed. Otherwise, the "hard limits" for the airplane are listed on page 137 of the manual."

Well, I just completed a flight with my new flap speed knowledge and what a difference. I have flown this aircraft for months using the wrong speeds for lowering flaps and slowing down, waiting to get into the white arc before setting any flaps. What a difference now, I can actually get the aircraft to slow down and descend on approach. These speeds shoudl be a sticky somewhere or be placed in the Connie Manual (which they are not) .

[WB_FlashOver]

Hi Bob, I was at work between concrete deliveries and on my phone when I post above. I did not have the correct numbers. Thanks for posting those.

I use the notches marked on the ASI for my gear and flaps. The manual is misleading, inaccurate and incomplete when it comes to flaps and gear. Note that the ASI is in knots and not MPH where the manual speaks to mph on most numbers. So what I am using is 172 knots indicated-1st flaps stage. 146 knots indicated-2nd flaps stage. 127 knots indicated-gear. 120 knots indicated-landing flaps and landing lights. I've come to this through the thread you tagged, as well as others on this very subject, and deciphered and gleaned what I could from it all.

Using these numbers I have had (0) complaints from the co-pilot and have had no repairs mentioned. My airframe has 601 hours and 123,000 statute miles on it so I believe I will continue as I have been.

From reading others posts I think I may be doing my take-off and bit different than others too. I don't actually "rotate" the airplane. I like 4 degrees up elevator trim as 5 seems too much and requires frantic trim adjustment to keep from stalling while waiting for gear and then flaps to retract. I pull the nose off the runway at 80-85 knots as recommended (yes, the manual says 80 mph but that's only 69 knots and not near fast enough). I just hold the front wheels a foot or two off the runway and let the plane fly when it is good and ready. I find that I don't have to force it into the air. It "wants to fly" and will when you give it the airspeed it needs.

I may just be doing everything wrong here but it is working for me. I'm open to suggestions if I have misunderstood some of these numbers.

Cheers
Roger

[bobsk8]

Hi Bob, I was at work between concrete deliveries and on my phone when I post above. I did not have the correct numbers. Thanks for posting those.

I use the notches marked on the ASI for my gear and flaps. The manual is misleading, inaccurate and incomplete when it comes to flaps and gear. Note that the ASI is in knots and not MPH where the manual speaks to mph on most numbers. So what I am using is 172 knots indicated-1st flaps stage. 146 knots indicated-2nd flaps stage. 127 knots indicated-gear. 120 knots indicated-landing flaps and landing lights. I've come to this through the thread you tagged, as well as others on this very subject, and deciphered and gleaned what I could from it all.

Using these numbers I have had (0) complaints from the co-pilot and have had no repairs mentioned. My airframe has 601 hours and 123,000 statute miles on it so I believe I will continue as I have been.

From reading others posts I think I may be doing my take-off and bit different than others too. I don't actually "rotate" the airplane. I like 4 degrees up elevator trim as 5 seems too much and requires frantic trim adjustment to keep from stalling while waiting for gear and then flaps to retract. I pull the nose off the runway at 80-85 knots as recommended (yes, the manual says 80 mph but that's only 69 knots and not near fast enough). I just hold the front wheels a foot or two off the runway and let the plane fly when it is good and ready. I find that I don't have to force it into the air. It "wants to fly" and will when you give it the airspeed it needs.

I may just be doing everything wrong here but it is working for me. I'm open to suggestions if I have misunderstood some of these numbers.

Cheers
Roger

One more question as long as we are discussing speeds. After take off, when do you go from takeoff power to climb power?

[WB_FlashOver]

One more question as long as we are discussing speeds. After take off, when do you go from takeoff power to climb power?

There are factors that effect my take-off power and transition into climb settings. Field length, payload, obstacles and density altitude all effect my power settings. I hardly ever use more than 38 MP x 2700 RPM for take-off. If the field is short, has obstacles, etc then I may use full power but it is very rare. A typical take-off power setting for me is 155 BMEP x 2600-2700 RPM. As soon as my plane is clean and I have positive climb with speed increase (maybe 115-125 IAS) I start pulling power back to climb of 140 BMEP x 2280 RPM. Often this is crossing the fence or earlier. I try to keep BMEP around 155 for take-off and 140 for climb. There is a lot going on at this point so it's hard to monitor all the gauges properly. My initial climb rate is 700 until I settle in then I may be able to increase to 800 or 900 and even 1000 FPM in really cold climates up to around 10,000 ft. I really just shoot for a climb speed of 150 knots indicated with a BMEP of 138-140 at 2280 RPM.

Cheers
Roger

[bobsk8]

One more question as long as we are discussing speeds. After take off, when do you go from takeoff power to climb power?

There are factors that effect my take-off power and transition into climb settings. Field length, payload, obstacles and density altitude all effect my power settings. I hardly ever use more than 38 MP x 2700 RPM for take-off. If the field is short, has obstacles, etc then I may use full power but it is very rare. A typical take-off power setting for me is 155 BMEP x 2600-2700 RPM. As soon as my plane is clean and I have positive climb with speed increase (maybe 115-125 IAS) I start pulling power back to climb of 140 BMEP x 2280 RPM. Often this is crossing the fence or earlier. I try to keep BMEP around 155 for take-off and 140 for climb. There is a lot going on at this point so it's hard to monitor all the gauges properly. My initial climb rate is 700 until I settle in then I may be able to increase to 800 or 900 and even 1000 FPM in really cold climates up to around 10,000 ft. I really just shoot for a climb speed of 150 knots indicated with a BMEP of 138-140 at 2280 RPM.

Cheers
Roger

Thanks.