Vibrations without default GPS?

[aurel42]

Hi,

when not using the default GPS on the copilot side, can I see the vibrations somewhere else?

Thanks,
Marc

[aurel42]

I was talking about this GPS: https://youtu.be/ykxeVxa8qJo?t=6m26s

DISREGARD: Turns out, when I select "Default" in the Configurator, that's not what I get. I assume it's one of the 3rd party GPS? If so, I guess I own "the other one" (the Flight1 GTN750). Never mind, I bet there's new options in the Shift-3 quick menu when I disable the GTN750.

I don't notice any vibration in the cockpit at all, should I? Are the vibrations done via the "DynamicHeadMovement" thingie? If so, perhaps they don't work for me because I fly in VR and the head tracking doesn't play with the head movement?

So many questions.

[Nick - A2A]

Hi Marc,

Yeah, the GPS wobbling around on the panel in Scott's video is the default FSX GPS 295. You should be able to enable it via the shift 3 pop-up menu if the default GPS option is selected in the aircraft configurator.

The Accu-Sim vibrations shouldn't be reliant on the default FSX dynamic head movement parameters as I have all these disabled and still see the effects. No idea how they'd play with a VR headset though? However, you should be able to see the panel as a whole vibrate somewhat depending on power and RPM settings.

Cheers,
Nick

[Lewis - A2A]

I'll try checking but the vibrations should work great still, they are dynamic though and in VR due to the low res you will have to zoom in a bit with your head to see them. They will change dependent on your engine settings.

thanks,
Lewis

[aurel42]

Hmmm, in FlyInside (my VR thingie) I can see intermittent, very faint vibrations (compared to the video) when I zoom on the GPS295 (and I was intentionally not using the wood resin prop). No idea why it is so weak, and why it seems to "pulse" in a one second interval, must be a side effect of running in VR. Also, I don't notice the vibration anywhere else in the cockpit.

But that GPS295 is virtually unusable for me, because I can't decipher the display with a first generation HMD (a Rift); even zoomed in it's impossible to see details on the map. I prefer the GTN750, even though it costs FPS and VAS and has... erm... usability issues in FlyInside (mainly caused because A2A's "switch panels on the fly" magic totally confuses FlyInside's button/lever/knob detection, so I can't easily control stuff on the radio panel). Still, not having to "pop out" the GPS display to be able to read details helps immersion a lot.

So, I guess, no visible vibrations for me. I'll stick to adjusting the power until the engine "sounds nice".

[Lewis - A2A]

The vibrations are there I've checked in my Vive. Its dynamic though so remember it depends on how the engines running and your settings. For the GPS usage check out Leap motion, its 1st gen as you mention so early days but pretty neat!

thanks,
Lewis

[Nick - A2A]

I seem to recall that the vibration effects are a function of the frame rate you get in the sim, so that may explain any 'pulsing' effect Marc. Possibly with very high or very low FPS, they wouldn't appear as intended. Not sure, but I think they're optimised for around 30 FPS.

Nick

[aurel42]

Thanks for all your advice!

I've locked down the framerate at 30 and I think it's easier for me now to spot the vibrations. Perhaps my brain is just learning not to filter them out when I look for them.

For now, the compass seems a good spot to see the intensity of the vibrations if I don't want to use the GPS295 (at least on the ground, I have yet to see if this works in the air as well).

About the technical side of my issue, I want to make sure that I explain it correctly:

Without VR, I can make the GPS295 really wobble around (my quick test: load a scenario with the Comanche cold & dark, Strg+E, then make the engine stutter by leaning it).

With VR, if I try the same, I get about half the effect in time and space. To explain: the vibrations are pulsating (I think about 400-500ms on, 400-500ms off), so I only get vibrations half of the time. And their amplitude seems a lot lower, the movement seems much less pronounced. To put it another way: instead of the continuous wobble, I see half a second of a tremble, and then half a second without any vibration, half a second of a tremble, and so on.

I only get significant movement during engine startup or shutdown.

I can't say for sure whether the vibrations have a different frequency, it takes me too long to switch back and forth to compare. But maybe the different effects I'm seeing are somehow connected? If the vibration is pulsating on and off because it's "played back" at double the speed (for whatever reason), that might be the very factor that limits the amplitude of the vibration? (Just speculating, of course.)

Anyway, it's not a huge bother, and since it's working fine for me outside VR (ie. with "flat" P3D), I'll bring it up with the FlyInside guy.

Lewis, you said it worked as intended for you with the Vive? It might be interesting for Dan to know if it's only an issue with the Rift.

[aurel42]

For the GPS usage check out Leap motion, its 1st gen as you mention so early days but pretty neat!

I'm definitely planning to get a Leap Motion camera at some point, but I'm juggling with too much new stuff already to introduce another moving part at the moment, and I use a HOTAS for flying (even with the Comanche; I hope the purists can forgive me). I assume LM works better with a yoke, and the "target with the blue dot and press button" method works better with a stick.

I kinda doubt LM would help with my current issue, though, because it uses the same data about controls as the blue dot, and this is how the current version of FlyInside (1.6) "internally" sees the Comanche radio stack after I've selected the GTN750 in the configurator:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7Z-8Z ... dxX0E/view

I wasn't able to attach the picture to my post ("board attachment quota"), but if you click on the link and your first thought is something like "This must be a painting of the Comanche by Salvadore Dali!" or "So this is what a radio stack looks like on LSD!", you've got the correct image.

This is not a P3D screenshot, this is not what I'm seeing when I am in the cockpit. This is a screenshot from a FlyInside tool used to "fix" buttons that weren't detected correctly.

As I said, I think FlyInside gets confused by A2A's "switch panels on the fly" magic, and doesn't seem to be able to figure out what's an active device in the stack and what isn't. (I have zero knowledge of FSX internals like panels or gauges, so, again, I have no idea what I'm saying here.)

Anyway, what I am seeing when I sit in the cockpit, is phantom knobs and buttons that appear over the GTN750 when I gaze in their direction, while the knobs on the COM2 radio seem invisible to FlyInside. I can of course always fall back to using the mouse.

It's really just a first world problem, considering that I'm using amazing new technology with a decades old simulation engine to sit in a cockpit instead of just in front of one. Everything is usable, some problems just need to be worked around. (Also, Dan already said he'd look at the Comanche specifically, so fixes are incoming!)

[Lewis - A2A]

You might want to post over ta fly inside forums as it looks like its an issue there or particular with your system. I've not heard anyone else with the issue and I know theirs an ever growing community using our aircraft in VR.

thanks,
Lewis

[aurel42]

Roger, will comply!

[aurel42]

fyi, this is an excerpt from a list of issues I have with the Comanche in FlyInside that I provided to Dan, the FlyInside dev:

The aircraft gives visual feedback on how smooth the engine is running by vibrating the cockpit and especially a GPS295 on a mount.

This is what this looks like for me in P3D/flat:

https://youtu.be/CRnZRYomABw?t=32s

Note how smooth and consistent the vibration is, and how the vibrations of the cockpit and the GPS295 harmonize. (Please forgive the smudge on the display, I must have put my fat thumb on it...)

This is approximately (because the mirror window only renders at 20fps) what this looks like for me in FlyInside:

https://youtu.be/_ThpnQ_VT8k?t=34s

Note how the vibration of the GPS295 seems to "pulsate". Inside the Rift, the experience is a bit smoother, but the "pulse" feels even more pronounced. According to A2A, this isn't a known issue among the growing number of VR users among their customers, but I have no idea what kind of P3D setting I could have messed up that would lead to something like this.

After staring long and hard at these videos, I get the impression that the overall vibration is the sum of components along different axes, and that, in FlyInside, one of those components is missing, leaving a gap in the animation?

[Lewis - A2A]

Okie dokie, Dan can give us a shout if he needs, he has our details. aurel42 its worth noting your average FPS I would think too, animations in FSX and many games really can be very FPS dependent.

thanks,
Lewis

[Scott - A2A]

Just like the real airplane, these vibrations exist in the Accu-Sim bird throughout the cabin but to a lesser extent. These GPS's are so effective in showing vibrations they are like a vibration analyzer.

Scott.