Oh, Tell Me About It

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Taka taka
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Oh, Tell Me About It

Post by Taka taka »

From AOPA 2002:
https://www.aopa.org/go-fly/aircraft-an ... r-comanche

"Most of the grumbling you hear about Comanches has to do with landings. Close to the runway, those laminar-flow wings ride deep in ground effect. If you're too fast, the airplane can float and float while you bleed off airspeed. Impatient pilots who try to force the airplane onto the runway at too high an airspeed can easily find themselves rewarded with wheelbarrowing on the nosewheel. The airplane has a large nosewheel (actually, it's the same size as the main gear) and, together with the main gears' stubby struts, the landing-gear geometry lends itself to nosewheel-first arrivals, premature liftoffs, and wheelbarrowing. The moral: Make sure you're at the proper airspeed and attitude the moment you touch down. Comanches can be cruel to the sloppy"

No crepe. First landing was exactly that...floating and floating and luckily I was slow enough that when I finally flared it sat well but there was maybe 300' of the runway left by the time I stopped.
Whew.
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DHenriques_
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Re: Oh, Tell Me About It

Post by DHenriques_ »

Taka taka wrote:From AOPA 2002:
https://www.aopa.org/go-fly/aircraft-an ... r-comanche

"Most of the grumbling you hear about Comanches has to do with landings. Close to the runway, those laminar-flow wings ride deep in ground effect. If you're too fast, the airplane can float and float while you bleed off airspeed. Impatient pilots who try to force the airplane onto the runway at too high an airspeed can easily find themselves rewarded with wheelbarrowing on the nosewheel. The airplane has a large nosewheel (actually, it's the same size as the main gear) and, together with the main gears' stubby struts, the landing-gear geometry lends itself to nosewheel-first arrivals, premature liftoffs, and wheelbarrowing. The moral: Make sure you're at the proper airspeed and attitude the moment you touch down. Comanches can be cruel to the sloppy"

No crepe. First landing was exactly that...floating and floating and luckily I was slow enough that when I finally flared it sat well but there was maybe 300' of the runway left.
Whew.
There's really nothing earth shattering about landing the Comanche. True, it has a high performance wing but you learn (or should be learning anyway) during your checkout in the airplane the in's and out's concerned with wing management.
Landing the Comanche requires little more than flying a stabilized approach with proper airspeed and configuration through the threshold window over the end of the runway. Do that and the Comanche is a joy to land. Don't do that and you will have the same issues during the flare that these mistakes would affect any other airplane.
The thing with laminar wings is that during the flare they can stall quickly as they cross their CLmax threshold. The Mustang does the same thing if you're not careful.
The "trick" if indeed there is one, is to think ahead of the airplane during the approach, control the approach speed and just land the aircraft.
Dudley Henriques

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Re: Oh, Tell Me About It

Post by Taka taka »

It floats and then if you have not cut your speed enough you are left with little runway and too much energy.

EVERY landing (5?) I have made is 'hot.'

I think more than anything this affirms the accurate simulation of this particular airframe.
To me this is a kudo.
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DHenriques_
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Re: Oh, Tell Me About It

Post by DHenriques_ »

Taka taka wrote:It floats and then if you have not cut your speed enough you are left with little runway and too much energy.

EVERY landing (5?) I have made is 'hot.'

I think more than anything this affirms the accurate simulation of this particular airframe.
To me this is a kudo.
You're right. That's exactly what it is, and you are right also that the team worked very hard to replicate this fidelity in the Comanche.
Dudley Henriques

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Re: Oh, Tell Me About It

Post by Taka taka »

I have got the trim for landing worked out and now it is a breeze.
90 kias recommended, I get down to 80 with a notch of flaps as I cross the fence and it is more than docile.
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DHenriques_
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Re: Oh, Tell Me About It

Post by DHenriques_ »

Taka taka wrote:I have got the trim for landing worked out and now it is a breeze.
90 kias recommended, I get down to 80 with a notch of flaps as I cross the fence and it is more than docile.
Good on ya! Just like the real one, all it takes is practice.
Dudley Henriques

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Orlaam
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Re: Oh, Tell Me About It

Post by Orlaam »

It's challenging for sure. I'm so used to coming in hot in jets and turboprops. I died last night at Bryce Canyon airport after coming in too fast and trying to go around at the wrong time. It's weird because my landings have been okay for the few days I've had it. Nevertheless, still learning. :lol:
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mallcott
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Re: Oh, Tell Me About It

Post by mallcott »

Taka taka wrote:I have got the trim for landing worked out and now it is a breeze.
90 kias recommended, I get down to 80 with a notch of flaps as I cross the fence and it is more than docile.
Knots, or MPH..?

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guillaume78150
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Re: Oh, Tell Me About It

Post by guillaume78150 »

80 mph.

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mallcott
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Re: Oh, Tell Me About It

Post by mallcott »

guillaume78150 wrote:80 mph.
Are we sure..? Using kts would certainly explain the floating IGE... but then it is a MPH gauge.

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Re: Oh, Tell Me About It

Post by Taka taka »

Knots indicated airspeed.
Yeah - 120 is HOT.
80 ~ 92 mph.
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Re: Oh, Tell Me About It

Post by Taka taka »

mallcott wrote:
guillaume78150 wrote:80 mph.
Are we sure..? Using kts would certainly explain the floating IGE... but then it is a MPH gauge.
Yeah, I tend to think in knots even when the indicator is MPH.
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mallcott
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Re: Oh, Tell Me About It

Post by mallcott »

Taka taka wrote:
mallcott wrote:
guillaume78150 wrote:80 mph.
Are we sure..? Using kts would certainly explain the floating IGE... but then it is a MPH gauge.
Yeah, I tend to think in knots even when the indicator is MPH.
Yes, but you can see it makes a difference when trying to seek help.
Best to be accurate as it helps us get a handle on what is, and isn't, going on! :wink:

As I've said previously, I only use the numbers for the aircraft I'm in, it almost has no relevance if you are going`by the numbers` - unless you have a mixture in the flight docs like certain Pipers of my acquaintance, when a quick 20 minutes with a pen to convert the anomalous to the homogenous pays dividends in the air.

In the (even recent) past it DID make a much bigger difference as time-to-go and other clock-based calculations were done on a whizzwheel or calculator, and mistaking `nautical miles per hour` with `statute miles per hour` would throw off arrival times and navigation, leading to CFIT, airspace intrusion and other nastiness including `temporary loss of position`. Especially if one was head-down in the cockpit busily trying to convert rather than looking out the window to aviate, navigate and avoid.

But these days TTG or ETA can be got pretty accurately from GPS, FMS or even a simple app on a phone or tablet so the kts v. mph argument holds less weight than it used to, but still it's important for flight planning when most computational tools use kts/nautical miles as default. Where it still really matters is for troubleshooting and reporting.

I like the way A2A mixes it up on a per-aircraft basis. Reminds me to keep on my toes in the real world!

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guillaume78150
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Re: Oh, Tell Me About It

Post by guillaume78150 »

The 250's pilot's operating handbook recommends 82 mph/71 kt as a final approach speed, but if you've been doing 90 kt on base you'll be busy lowering flaps, S-turning, or using other techniques to both go down and slow down safely.

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Re: Oh, Tell Me About It

Post by Taka taka »

The trick for me is lowering the throttle (one notch of flaps) enough that I am pulling the yoke hard to stay level.
That's 80 - 90 mph.
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