Descents in the Comanche 250

[CrownCityMisfit]

I came here wondering why I can grease a Cherokee, but keep putting the Comanche in the dirt. Looks like I have much to learn. Thanks for the advice fellas.

[ClipperLuna]

keep putting the Comanche in the dirt.

By in the dirt, do you mean you're coming up short or going too long? I found this airplane was tricky to land in comparison to the Cherokee or the Skylane, but some things I read in this thread helped a lot, especially the advice from William Huges

[William Hughes]

The Comanche's reputation is a bit undeserved I think. But it is a rather large heavy aircraft for a single engine plane. So the loading effects are more pronounced. Really heavy transport aircraft are even more affected by the loading and they are *very* careful about it. Most casual GA pilots train in an aircraft whose characteristics don't change much since they don't make long flights and don't burn a lot of fuel.

But a single Comanche has a really high gross weight and with tips can carry a LOT of fuel for her class. So it is actually possible to have a 450 lb difference (15%!) between takeoff and landing. Add in the difference between regular practice flights (partial tanks and one pilot) vs a full aircraft on a long cruise and there is a big difference between what you are used to and what can happen. This just doesn't happen in a smaller aircraft like a 172 or what have you. A 172 up for 30 minutes might burn 30-40 lbs of fuel. A percentage change of 1-2%!

Then you add in the fact that the POH discusses performance at max gross, and you have a recipe for repeated final approaches at too a high a speed.

She is a complex and heavy aircraft and needs more airmanship than a little trainer. It's no airliner of course, but there is a lot more going on and far more potentials for gotcha's than other light singles.

[hefy_jefy]

My experience is similar, it takes early planning to get this aircraft into a steady descent, I did wonder if this was a problem with the flight model, however it seems the real aircraft with its laminar flow wing was tricky, here's a piece I found on AOPA describing the "real" Commache's flight characteristics:

"It's important to remember that Comanches are slippery. If you're accustomed to Cessna singles, you'll be sure to notice that speed reductions will take some time and require some advance planning. Of course, this makes itself most evident in the landing phase. The 250's pilot's operating handbook recommends 82 mph/71 kt as a final approach speed, but if you've been doing 90 kt on base you'll be busy lowering flaps, S-turning, or using other techniques to both go down and slow down safely.

Most of the grumbling you hear about Comanches has to do with landings. Close to the runway, those laminar-flow wings ride deep in ground effect. If you're too fast, the airplane can float and float while you bleed off airspeed. Impatient pilots who try to force the airplane onto the runway at too high an airspeed can easily find themselves rewarded with wheelbarrowing on the nosewheel."

Love this plane and fly it all the time!
Geoff

[DHenriques_]

My experience is similar, it takes early planning to get this aircraft into a steady descent, I did wonder if this was a problem with the flight model, however it seems the real aircraft with its laminar flow wing was tricky, here's a piece I found on AOPA describing the "real" Commache's flight characteristics:

"It's important to remember that Comanches are slippery. If you're accustomed to Cessna singles, you'll be sure to notice that speed reductions will take some time and require some advance planning. Of course, this makes itself most evident in the landing phase. The 250's pilot's operating handbook recommends 82 mph/71 kt as a final approach speed, but if you've been doing 90 kt on base you'll be busy lowering flaps, S-turning, or using other techniques to both go down and slow down safely.

Most of the grumbling you hear about Comanches has to do with landings. Close to the runway, those laminar-flow wings ride deep in ground effect. If you're too fast, the airplane can float and float while you bleed off airspeed. Impatient pilots who try to force the airplane onto the runway at too high an airspeed can easily find themselves rewarded with wheelbarrowing on the nosewheel."

Love this plane and fly it all the time!
Geoff

What's totally interesting to me is that I never even once had ANY problem flying the Comanche when I was active using one for charter and dual instruction. I've checked out several pilots in the 250 and a few in the 400 and their checkouts were completely normal in every respect.
There are of course factors that have to be understood about ANY high performance airplane and coming into one from aircraft of less performance does indeed require some specific education but these things are normally addressed by any competent check pilot or checkout program.
Trust me, the Comanche is just another airplane. It's specifics are not that serious and flying one simply requires normal knowledge and nothing special in the way of "exceptional skill".
Dudley Henriques