IMPORTANT: Check your controller sensitivities

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WB_FlashOver
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Re: IMPORTANT: FSX Users - Check your controller sensitiviti

Post by WB_FlashOver »

lonewulf47 wrote: OTOH it must also be said that FSUIPC is not only dealing with controller axes, but also with many other aspects. I for my part use FSUIPC for many, many years to control any kind of pusbuttons with the help of the ingenious LINDA module. That way I do not need any fancy software drivers as long as the controller is of a common HID type (which e.g. most of the SAITEK controllers are). So the combination of axes controlled by FSX/P3D and pushbuttons controlled by LINDA/FSUIPC is - at least for me for the last years - an unbeatable combo :D It's like in other aspects of life: Everyone has his preferences !
I will have to back Lonewulf47 in full on this. I have been using FSUIPC with LINDA for several years and cannot imagine simming without it. FSUIPC is excellent for assigning individual axis depending on aircraft and tweaking those sensitivities per aircraft characteristics. Custom button controls inside FSUIPC are almost limitless but can be difficult to set up for the faint of heart. LINDA fills this gap... and then some. Being able to create your own commands to send to the game, compound commands, and make them toggle/switch/delay/etc in any conceptual combination makes limited buttons work for you in ways that you cannot believe. Then add three button states to that and you triple the buttons available to you. The configurator that A2A has put together for us is really great but is pretty limited to what the FSUIPC and LINDA combination can do for you. And let's not get started on writing .lua files to do tasks for you :shock:

Thanks for this thread and the info you've brought to our attention Scott.

Cheers Roger
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Nick - A2A
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Re: IMPORTANT: FSX Users - Check your controller sensitiviti

Post by Nick - A2A »

Something I discovered very recently is that backing-off sensitivity from the full right position by just 1 unit (i.e. so it's 126 rather than 127) eliminates a slight visual 'fluttering' or 'jumping' of the control surfaces on the 3D model that I found rather irritating. This is perhaps related to rather crummy pots on my joystick, but though it worth a mention. No notable drawback in terms of handling, and my null zone is set at 2. Incidentally, increasing the null zone whilst leaving sensitivity on 127 didn't seem to help much with the 'fluttering'.

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Scott - A2A
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Re: IMPORTANT: FSX Users - Check your controller sensitiviti

Post by Scott - A2A »

Nick,

I think that is an interesting observation. Just one notch acts like a filter, and perhaps, this should be the recommended setting.

Scott.
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jahman
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Re: IMPORTANT: FSX Users - Check your controller sensitiviti

Post by jahman »

Just wanted to add a few thoughts...

1. FSUIPC is absolutely e-ssential to serious simming in FSX/P3D2/Steam.

2. The FSX Sensitivity setting is a misnomer, as it is not sensitivity at all but a moving average filter of varying length (time). It should be called "smoothing" instead. A true sensistivity setting is a multiplier number (scalar) that only affects the ratio of degrees of movement of the control surface vs. degrees of movement of the control input, with the timing of the movement not affected at all.

3. When the mis-called sensitivity is low WRT elevator input, the timing delay leads to PIO-Pilot Induced Oscillations, notably on flare when elevator control is crucial. In the real world, Scott Crossfield PIO'd on landing the X-15 the first time because the elevon hydraulic actuator could only actuate the elevons at 25º/Sec. The elevon rate was increased to 35º/Sec and the PIOs were gone.

See: http://www.sierrafoot.org/x-15/adventur ... ght_1.html

4. Perhaps many simmers are unaware, if aerodynamics depend *only* on the current shape of the aircraft model (Blade Element Theory, invented in 1878!), there is no mismatch at all between the visual and the computed control surface positions, as they are one and the same by definition. Perhaps some future incarnation of FSX/P3D/Steam might incorporate BET aerodynamics?

See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blade_element_theory



Cheers,

- jahman.

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Re: IMPORTANT: FSX Users - Check your controller sensitiviti

Post by G-BJPS »

Just a question, why do people keep saying FSUIPC and or LINDA etc are essential for simming?
I don't personally use any of them (only the free version of FSUIPC to prevent CTD's) when I got my PC and Saitek controllers, I just plugged it all in and it still works fine to this day, I didn't install any drivers that people speak of.....you just plug em in and it works!
I've tried my mates setup and he uses FSUIPC with Saitek gear, and I felt no difference at all, its exactly the same as mine.

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Lewis - A2A
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Re: IMPORTANT: FSX Users - Check your controller sensitiviti

Post by Lewis - A2A »

Agreed John, been simming all my life and never used FSUIPC as I only have the basics, yoke, pedals and throttles.

I think its similar to the beauty worlds 'essential oils' creams and face scrubs etc. I've been alive 31 years, never used them and to my knowledge this I am experiencing is still me being alive. So I question the essential part :twisted: :wink:

cheers,
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Re: IMPORTANT: FSX Users - Check your controller sensitiviti

Post by G-BJPS »

LOL Lewis :D same here bud, but I'm 39 (and actually scared of becoming 40 lol)
I can understand why people use it I guess, if they like the ability to set up all kinds of buttons/switches etc.
I have the Saitek Proflight Yoke and Rudder pedals and Quadrant, and apart from brakes and flaps assigned to the yoke, most of the other buttons I use for views, obviously the Hat Switch to look around (or mouse look while in the cruise) and I have another yoke slider switch I use to zoom in and out.

On the Throttle Quadrant I have a button assigned as the gear up/down, another to move the eye point up/down and the other to enable/disable 'Mouse look'
Left throttle axis is the throttle or power lever, Middle one is Prop, and the right one I use as Trim.

I like to use the mouse to control a lot of stuff in the VC as it feels like your actually reaching for switches etc.

John.
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Re: IMPORTANT: FSX Users - Check your controller sensitiviti

Post by Oracle427 »

I also do not use FSUIPC, I thought that you can do all these mappings using the built in FSX interface.
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WB_FlashOver
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Re: IMPORTANT: FSX Users - Check your controller sensitiviti

Post by WB_FlashOver »

Well to each his own. I'm not saying you can't fly without either of these programs. I just can't imagine myself without them.

As far as using the mouse for everything in the cockpit I think of it like this. When I drive to town in my car and it starts to rain I just reach down and twist the wiper control. When it's time to shift the car I just reach down and grab the lever and shift. I don't have to LOOK at anything. Using the mouse (especially in rough weather) would be like using a 3 foot stick in my car to run the controls. I would have to take my eyes off the road and focus all my attention to get the stick to touch the switch just right so I could change it's position. This does not seem realistic at all and gets very frustrating to me.

The final fact is, there are all these programs out there made by some pretty smart people. The programs work for some and not for others. I'm thankful to those that share their programs with us (especially the free ones :lol: ) to try out. If we like them we use them. If not we remove them.

Bottom line is to enjoy simming in whatever way works for you.
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Re: IMPORTANT: FSX Users - Check your controller sensitiviti

Post by manxphoto »

Thank you so much for this, Ive been flight simming for many years and this is the first time I've seen it explained. I had altered the aircraft.cfg file on the A2A C182 as the only way to make it controllable for landing, as I'd considered that the 'sensitivity' of the ailerons was way too high and tried sliding the FSX Sensitivity sliders to the left (been flying heavier aircraft so was probably unused to light aircraft controls!) and just making matters worse! Sliders back to full right and .cfg file altered back to how it came(!) and all seems great :-)

Cheers
Jon

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Re: IMPORTANT: FSX Users - Check your controller sensitiviti

Post by sleightflight »

I followed the saitek installation guide for my X52 pro hotas, my saitek cessna yoke and my saitek pro rudder pedals and I set the sensitivities as they suggested some years ago.
Fsuipc comes in when you go beyond the normal setup like I have with extra throttle levers and mixture sliders and three different saitek panels.
I simply couldn't get fsx to run them all on all of my many add on aircraft but with Fsuipc and Lindale everything works.

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Re: IMPORTANT: FSX Users - Check your controller sensitiviti

Post by approxdec »

gday ...

i am a keyboard flyer

the keyboard sensitivities video is instructive in different ways for me
most of us are not going to make full deflection control inputs like this
it's like ramming the throttle forward from ready to takeoff
i understand the linkage, the connection which the video shows
but for me, the 'delay' is trying to simulate the smooth control inputs and
no OVER-control that we use for normal flying

at some stage most students will be told 'take you hands off the controls'
and the response is always huge concern followed by increasing relaxation as
the exercise in trimming and understanding that it is the aircraft which is flying
is repeated throughout training.

with sensitivities at 100% control of the aircraft is difficult on takeoff and climb
because of over control.
with sensitivities of ailerons=80 and elevators=75 for example, takeoff and climb
can be flown much more smoothly and the aircraft can be controlled and trimmed
for the climb and flown hands off
similarly for landing the aircraft. without the over control which 100% sensitivities create
we are better able to set up for a good landing.

of course, we must fly the aircraft, as described in Just a word or two on flying an Accusim airplane
http://a2asimulations.com/forum/viewtop ... 20&t=43086
that's why we have the Accu-sim aircraft.

regards
joe

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Lewis - A2A
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Re: IMPORTANT: FSX Users - Check your controller sensitiviti

Post by Lewis - A2A »

Joe I would strongly suggest getting even a cheap $20 stick, flying with a keyboard is harder by quite a bit than flying a real aircraft and so you tend to be not really simulating much if limits with a keyboard as it's no basis in reality, esp if having to use control delay to fake correct control inputs.

Saitek for exams produce a range of budget sticks that are pretty slick and include features like throttles and twist grip rudders too. Well worth looking into.

Thanks,
Lewis


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Re: IMPORTANT: FSX Users - Check your controller sensitiviti

Post by Jigsaw »

I'm flying FSX for almost a decade now, and as far as controls go I never had any need for FSUIPC whatsoever. It would just be an overcomplication with no benefit for me. Just yet another thing to worry about, to configure and to keep track off that I rather not bother with. Everything works just fine the way it is, and there is no need to change that. Nothing essential about it.

Having said that: I do have the free version of FSUIPC installed, but just for the prevention of some crashes with orbx sceneries that was implemented a while ago. Not sure it that's even necessary at this point.
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Re: IMPORTANT: FSX Users - Check your controller sensitiviti

Post by kevinh »

jahman wrote:Just wanted to add a few thoughts...

1. FSUIPC is absolutely e-ssential to serious simming in FSX/P3D2/Steam.

2. The FSX Sensitivity setting is a misnomer, as it is not sensitivity at all but a moving average filter of varying length (time). It should be called "smoothing" instead. A true sensistivity setting is a multiplier number (scalar) that only affects the ratio of degrees of movement of the control surface vs. degrees of movement of the control input, with the timing of the movement not affected at all.

3. When the mis-called sensitivity is low WRT elevator input, the timing delay leads to PIO-Pilot Induced Oscillations, notably on flare when elevator control is crucial. In the real world, Scott Crossfield PIO'd on landing the X-15 the first time because the elevon hydraulic actuator could only actuate the elevons at 25º/Sec. The elevon rate was increased to 35º/Sec and the PIOs were gone.

See: http://www.sierrafoot.org/x-15/adventur ... ght_1.html

4. Perhaps many simmers are unaware, if aerodynamics depend *only* on the current shape of the aircraft model (Blade Element Theory, invented in 1878!), there is no mismatch at all between the visual and the computed control surface positions, as they are one and the same by definition. Perhaps some future incarnation of FSX/P3D/Steam might incorporate BET aerodynamics?

See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blade_element_theory



Cheers,

- jahman.
1. FSUIPC is not essential for serious simming in FSX or P3D. It's useful but not essential. I only use the unregistered version. A2A never said don't use FSUIPC, so it's a moot point anyway.

2 and 3 Are just a repeat of Scott's comments in the first post.

4. Making the flight model respond to external model geometry changes makes no improvement on the flight simulation. It actually makes it harder for the flight model designer to get the exact response they want. You may be surprised to learn that FSX, with its lookup table aerodynamics, is far closer to the way full motion simulator flight models are designed than X-Plane is.

Kevin

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