Landing the Comanche 250

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TonyW
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Joined: 03 Jan 2016, 17:22

Landing the Comanche 250

Post by TonyW »

Hi,

I absolutely love my A2A Comanche and am currently doing an VFR tour around the cost of Ireland and will soon be moving to Scotland (as I have photo scenery for all of ROI and most of Scotland). I believe that I am now flying the aircraft pretty well after an initial learning curve and a "Reset as new", well as least the workshop tell me after each flight that the aircraft is in "beautiful shape"!

However I have a problem landing. I usually fly a long final to give myself time so my speed and descent rate are well under control. My problem is that in order to keep the nose wheel from touching down first I am flaring maybe a little to soon, so ballooning - quite high - is often a feature of my landings - as it was one or twice when taking lessons in a real Cessna 152, but not as bad. This means that I lose visibility of the runway so although the touchdowns are gentle enough I'm rarely on the centre line and sometimes one wheel comes down on the grass. I have tried hiding the panel and just having the basic gauges showing (W on keyboard) but the lack of audible engine feedback is disconcerting. I sometimes think that given ideal weather I could land a real Comanche better than in FSX simply due to better visibility?

Does anyone have any tips on how I overcome this please?

Thanks,

Tony

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mallcott
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Re: Landing the Comanche 250

Post by mallcott »

Fly slower. Ballooning is a sure sign you're too fast.

What speeds and weights are you flying?

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Nick - A2A
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Re: Landing the Comanche 250

Post by Nick - A2A »

Hi Tony,

Excess speed could be an issue, as mallcott says, though there's potentially a bit more to it than that. For one thing, it's worth taking some time to make sure the sensitivity and null zone of your controls aren't part of the problem. In response to a few posters complaining about control difficulties, Scott from A2A posted this thread which may be helpful: IMPORTANT: FSX Users - Check your controller sensitivities.

I also recommend this video on landing technique by Rob "Great Ozzie" Osborne. It uses the A2A Cessna 172, but the principal of trying to smoothly pull back so that the top of the cowling is level with the far end of the runway still applies.

Using this techinque, here's an example of a landing in the Comanche that I recorded back along for another thread. Note that the view of the far end of the runway is only lost just as the mains make contact. I'm no real world flyer and the video's not meant as a demo of the ideal landing technique, but hopefully it will give you a general idea of the changing picture over the nose throughout the flare.

Cheers,
Nick

TonyW
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Re: Landing the Comanche 250

Post by TonyW »

Thanks everyone for the quick replies. Unfortunately I won't be able to fly the Comanche for a few days but when I do I'll try out the various tips and let you know how I got on.
From my initial reading of the replies I suspect it could be my speed as I may not be reducing it enough for the landing - but will know for sure after one or two more flights.

Regards,

Tony

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guillaume78150
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Re: Landing the Comanche 250

Post by guillaume78150 »

The Comanche is a speed "sensitive" sleek aircraft. Under normal weather conditions, trim the aircraft (90 mph with full flaps) and reduce slowly power when flaring over the threshold, the A/C tends to float a bit (low wing configuration?) over the runway, but keep the wings leveled and the A/C will land where you want it. Always a rewarding moment. :wink:
(I can't tell the procedure is correct but I found the sink rate was easier to maintain whithin correct parameters, especially on ILS approach, with MP than trim).

TonyW
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Joined: 03 Jan 2016, 17:22

Re: Landing the Comanche 250

Post by TonyW »

Thanks to all who replied. I've looked at the video on landing and found it helpful. I've only flown twice since my post but paid more attention to my speed and I think that was part of my problem, and of the two landings I did since only one had a slight balloon but the other didn't, although that was at the expense of all three wheels touching down together.
I do think though that part of my problem is the fear of slamming into the runway so I will have to avoid the temptation to pull back too much and the difficulty of judging how close to the runway I actually am due to lack of spatial awareness. When I replay my flights I find that I often flare too much when the main wheels are literally only a few centimetres above the runway. I just need more practice!

Kind regards,

Tony

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DHenriques_
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Re: Landing the Comanche 250

Post by DHenriques_ »

TonyW wrote:Thanks to all who replied. I've looked at the video on landing and found it helpful. I've only flown twice since my post but paid more attention to my speed and I think that was part of my problem, and of the two landings I did since only one had a slight balloon but the other didn't, although that was at the expense of all three wheels touching down together.
I do think though that part of my problem is the fear of slamming into the runway so I will have to avoid the temptation to pull back too much and the difficulty of judging how close to the runway I actually am due to lack of spatial awareness. When I replay my flights I find that I often flare too much when the main wheels are literally only a few centimetres above the runway. I just need more practice!

Kind regards,

Tony
Something I always did with my students might help you with your "issue".
First off, what others have said about speed control is especially critical in the Comanche. Too fast over the fence in this airplane and you are in for a long flare.
About your fear of flying it into the ground; Try this. Just taxi out and SIT THERE for a few minutes with the engine running before you take off. What you are seeing over the nose is what you will be looking at when you touch down. Your nose of course will be slightly higher than this during your flare but THIS is your "never exceed" point visual cue on your landing. Just fly it down to just above this visual cue and KEEP IT THERE with whatever back pressure you need to do that until you touch down.
Try this and see if it helps.
DH

TonyW
Airman First Class
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Joined: 03 Jan 2016, 17:22

Re: Landing the Comanche 250

Post by TonyW »

Thanks DH, am hoping to fly again tomorrow so will keep a close eye on the speed.
Tony

Alfredson007
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Re: Landing the Comanche 250

Post by Alfredson007 »

http://www.comancheflyer.com/page/401/T ... rmance.pdf

Here is a PDF that has been made for real pilots, but because A2A comanche is near perfection, it works pretty well. See page 13, but read the earlier pages too, starting from page 8 they analyze the "issue".

Take note also that in that PDF (generally, depending on section) they talk about 250hp, 180hp, turbo and twin comanche etc, not just the 250 we fly.

TonyW
Airman First Class
Posts: 70
Joined: 03 Jan 2016, 17:22

Re: Landing the Comanche 250

Post by TonyW »

Thanks Alfredson,

The attached pdf has plenty of useful information for me, e.g. correct engine leaning etc. as well as landing. What is described in the middle of page 9 describes my problem exactly - when I flare I climb.. I normally use my own weight of 60Kg (quite light) plus the same for a passenger (based on my wife!) - very geeky I know, plus maybe 30Kg luggage, so a total of 150Kg. The fuel weight can vary quite a bit depending on when I last refuelled. Unfortunately I haven't been able to fly in well over a week as I am sick, but hope to resume next week, after I read the full pdf.

Regards,

Tony

Taka taka
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Re: Landing the Comanche 250

Post by Taka taka »

Sorry to necro this.
Was this solved?

The laminar wing causes the floating. The aircraft feels ground effect much more than most GA aircraft.
I found an AOPA article that explains just that - the biggest complaint about the plane was landing due to ground effect.

"Most of the grumbling you hear about Comanches has to do with landings. Close to the runway, those laminar-flow wings ride deep in ground effect. If you're too fast, the airplane can float and float while you bleed off airspeed. Impatient pilots who try to force the airplane onto the runway at too high an airspeed can easily find themselves rewarded with wheelbarrowing on the nosewheel. The airplane has a large nosewheel (actually, it's the same size as the main gear) and, together with the main gears' stubby struts, the landing-gear geometry lends itself to nosewheel-first arrivals, premature liftoffs, and wheelbarrowing. The moral: Make sure you're at the proper airspeed and attitude the moment you touch down. Comanches can be cruel to the sloppy"
"Spring Chicken to Shite Hawk in one easy lesson...taka taka taka taka..."

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